Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Boyd says DL mgt is killing the company

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

lowecur

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2003
Posts
2,317
Mike Boyd and another analcyst agree the day of reckoning is coming quickly. Boyd is critical of DL management for the new fare structure as well as their refusal to cut duplication in many mgt jobs. He also thinks buying wholly owned DCI carriers is a suckers bet.

Fuel costs, 'foolish' steps put Delta in jeopardy

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]By Chris Kauffmann [/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Orlando Business Journal[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Updated: 7:00 p.m. ET March 27, 2005[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ORLANDO -- Soaring aviation fuel prices have pushed Delta Air Lines further into a financial tailspin that some analysts say already was deepened by "foolish" strategic moves. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]As a result, they say, what takes off has to land -- somewhere, even if it's in bankruptcy court. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]That fate is the problem yet again facing Delta, Orlando International Airport's largest passenger carrier, just a few short months after it squeezed about $1 billion in concessions out of its pilots and put in place a restructuring plan. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The biggest wild card we see for Delta is fuel. They are pretty much at the mercy of fuel prices," says Brian Hayward, a transportation analyst with Zacks Investment Research in Chicago. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Aviation fuel prices have gone up more than 40 cents a gallon since January -- to $1.56 as of March 15 -- and 64 percent since March of 2004, according to the American Petroleum Institute. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"I see this as a very serious challenge for Delta," says Henry Harteveldt, a San Francisco-based airline analyst for Forrester Research Inc. "The big difference between this time and the last time is (Delta) doesn't have a lot to play with this time." [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]As airline analyst Michael Boyd of The Boyd Group Inc. in Colorado sees it, this "is a crisis" impacting not only Atlanta-based Delta, but all airlines because "all airlines are effectively losing money. Things could get a lot worse because if you cut costs, they take awhile to manifest themselves, but when you pump fuel, it hits you right then," Boyd says. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Spokesman Anthony Black says the Delta (NYSE: DAL) won't "discuss the speculation of others." Delta, he adds, put its restructuring plan in place in September and has no plans to change anything at this point because of higher fuel prices. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Neither Harteveldt nor Boyd is terribly impressed with them, Harteveldt is more critical and sees fewer options. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Harteveldt says decisions by the carrier to eliminate things such as pillows and meals on certain types of flights do little to save money and even less to make the airline appealing to flyers, thereby giving them fewer reasons to choose it. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"They should be thinking about customer retention, but they are making absolutely foolish moves that will bite Delta right on its big southern behind," he adds. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Boyd, however, says eliminating pillows and meals in a liquidity crisis are perfectly fine, proactive moves because "most people don't even think about (those things)." [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Still, Boyd believes Delta -- and the other airlines -- needs to do a lot more if it wants to become solvent, starting at its headquarters. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"They need to take a chainsaw to the place and get rid of anything that doesn't put a tushy in a seat," he says. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"They need to get rid of extraneous people and extraneous systems. Maybe they don't need two vice presidents of marketing or a secretary for every vice president," Boyd says. "How many check-in people do you need at the gate when everyone has already been checked in?" [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When it comes to Delta's fare structure, neither Harteveldt nor Boyd have particularly good things to say. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Boyd notes that the airline cut a lot of fares customers couldn't buy anyway, while Harteveldt says the fact Delta hasn't raised fares on walk-up customers "signifies stupidity" because as last-minute shoppers, they are less price-sensitive. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Although there has been a lot of speculation that Delta might sell off subsidiary carriers such as Comair and Atlantic Southeast Airlines, analysts don't see it as an especially viable long-term solution. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"First, they have got to find a sucker to buy them," Boyd says, adding the subsidiary carriers generate their revenue tied to a system that has at the head an airline that isn't making any money. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Meanwhile, Karen Miller, spokeswoman for the Washington, D.C.-based Air Line Pilots Association, says the 64,000-member union is willing to give Delta the benefit of the doubt for the time being. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Given where fuel prices are, it will be very difficult for any airline," she says. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"We've given Delta the tools to restructure, and now it is up to management to present a viable business plan. They have a plan in place and it will take some time to see if it is working." [/font]
 
Boyd seems ignorant to the fact that Delta could do an IPO for Comair or ASA instead of finding a "buyer". What is with the statement, "They need to take a chainsaw to the place and get rid of anything that doesn't put a tushy in a seat?" That's great. The next time Delta does a CEO search, Boyd can say that in the interview. In the meantime the current management will continue down the other path of offering a premium-service product at a price that does not gouge last minute travelers.


Seems to me these analysts are just reacting to the odd interview in Forbes and are reading Grinstein's comments as very negative (see below). These guys want to say they predicted the ch 11 and the reason for it. If they are wrong at least they got their names in the paper.


Other than that I think the analysts are doing a bang up job.

Grinstein: Grim Delta CEO Says More Cuts Needed; Bankruptcy Still Possible
Greg Levine, 03.23.05, 12:57 PM ET

NEW YORK - Doers and doings in business, entertainment and technology:

Gerald Grinstein [url="http://images.forbes.com/media/assets/facestrack.gif"]http://images.forbes.com/media/assets/facestrack.gif[/url] Add To Tracker
Always darkest. Delta Air Lines (nyse: DAL - news - people ) may circumnavigate bankruptcy--if it makes more cuts. So said Chief Executive Gerald Grinstein on Wednesday, addressing a New York gathering of investors. The CEO said it's possible to avoid the financial abyss of rival legacies such as UAL's (otc: UALAQ - news - people ) United and US Airways (otc: UAIRQ - news - people )--the latter toys with transforming itself into a discounter, a la Southwest Airlines (nyse: LUV - news - people )--but he said that upping fares alone won't do the trick. Soaring fuel prices, Grinstein lamented, are mandating more cost cuts. Of course, "There are always a lot of surprises in the airline industry," the CEO said when asked about the possibility of a bankruptcy filing. "Some companies live on in Chapter 11 much longer than you thought they might. If you make that decision that you're going to do it [declare bankruptcy], there are a lot of things you can explore in order to do that." But Grinstein said the No. 3 U.S. carrier is not yet throwing in the towel. "We are looking at other liquidity opportunities in order to provide that liquidity cushion that will get us through '05 and '06, and we believe by '07 we will become cash positive," he said. The CEO reiterated his faith that Delta will survive; then appended: "I hope."
 
FlyBoeingJets said:
Boyd seems ignorant to the fact that Delta could do an IPO for Comair or ASA instead of finding a "buyer". What is with the statement, "They need to take a chainsaw to the place and get rid of anything that doesn't put a tushy in a seat?" That's great. The next time Delta does a CEO search, Boyd can say that in the interview. In the meantime the current management will continue down the other path of offering a premium-service product at a price that does not gouge last minute travelers.


Seems to me these analysts are just reacting to the odd interview in Forbes and are reading Grinstein's comments as very negative (see below). These guys want to say they predicted the ch 11 and the reason for it. If they are wrong at least they got their names in the paper.


Other than that I think the analysts are doing a bang up job.

Grinstein: Grim Delta CEO Says More Cuts Needed; Bankruptcy Still Possible
Greg Levine, 03.23.05, 12:57 PM ET

NEW YORK - Doers and doings in business, entertainment and technology:

Gerald Grinstein [url="http://images.forbes.com/media/assets/facestrack.gif"]http://images.forbes.com/media/assets/facestrack.gif[/url] Add To Tracker
Always darkest. Delta Air Lines (nyse: DAL - news - people ) may circumnavigate bankruptcy--if it makes more cuts. So said Chief Executive Gerald Grinstein on Wednesday, addressing a New York gathering of investors. The CEO said it's possible to avoid the financial abyss of rival legacies such as UAL's (otc: UALAQ - news - people ) United and US Airways (otc: UAIRQ - news - people )--the latter toys with transforming itself into a discounter, a la Southwest Airlines (nyse: LUV - news - people )--but he said that upping fares alone won't do the trick. Soaring fuel prices, Grinstein lamented, are mandating more cost cuts. Of course, "There are always a lot of surprises in the airline industry," the CEO said when asked about the possibility of a bankruptcy filing. "Some companies live on in Chapter 11 much longer than you thought they might. If you make that decision that you're going to do it [declare bankruptcy], there are a lot of things you can explore in order to do that." But Grinstein said the No. 3 U.S. carrier is not yet throwing in the towel. "We are looking at other liquidity opportunities in order to provide that liquidity cushion that will get us through '05 and '06, and we believe by '07 we will become cash positive," he said. The CEO reiterated his faith that Delta will survive; then appended: "I hope."

Continental spun off COEX - the precedent has already been set. Look, every airline (except maybe SWA) will be rocked by soaring fuel prices. Why is this a revelation?????? Boyd likes to hear himself talk - didn't he think UAL was an absolute gonner 2 years ago?
 
On Your Six said:
Continental spun off COEX - the precedent has already been set. Look, every airline (except maybe SWA) will be rocked by soaring fuel prices. Why is this a revelation?????? Boyd likes to hear himself talk - didn't he think UAL was an absolute gonner 2 years ago?
Spinning off your feed to an IPO is viable only when the primary carrier is financially stable. Wall St would never buy into it. If SKYW gets involved, you can bet they will completely control DLs board, mgt, and future direction of the company.
 
I don't think Delta will let Skywest control all the feed. It just gives them too much power. I believe an IPO is in the cards, but as to the timing, that's anyones geuss.
 
lowecur said:
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]By Chris Kauffmann [/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Orlando Business Journal[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Updated: 7:00 p.m. ET March 27, 2005[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"They need to get rid of extraneous people and extraneous systems. Maybe they don't need two vice presidents of marketing or a secretary for every vice president," Boyd says. [/font]
And they darn well don't need triple redundant management structures at ASA and Comair to "re-invent" what Delta tells them to do. Skywest said they could cut 5% out of ASA's cost structure. If they can do it, so can Delta.

Redundant managers at ASA and Comair do nothing to sell Delta tickets, bring in revenue, or rationalize the overlapping operationally integrated route structure.

Figuring that ASA and Comair's costs are around 2.5 Billion, 5% is $125,000,000. You know, a hundred million here and a hundred million there, it starts to add up.
 
I don't dislike Boyd, but he sounds like a parrot.

Oil prices have stayed higher than some have thought. Then Grinstein talks about cutting more and the need for liquidity. Finally Boyd comes in and says the same thing and proclaims it dramatically as if no one is aware of this hidden pearl of knowledge.

I hereby declare Boyd--Master of the Obvious!

It remains to be seen if the new fare structure is as faulty as Boyd/Harteveldt believes. The public and USA Today seem to like it. Boyd/Harteveldt seems to think the only way Delta can make money on fares is to gouge the last minute traveler. The coveted business traveler. We'll see
 
Last edited:
Redundant managers at ASA and Comair do nothing to sell Delta tickets

When I got hired at ASA in 1995, they had ~800 pilots. The food chain consisted of 3 chief pilots, a DO, and the president of the company.

We all hated those tight ba$tards George and John, but they've buried more money than 99% of Delta executives will ever make in this business.
 
Well, burning the furniture in the house isn't the best thing to do, but you might still have a house at the end of this. Face it, our management will either look like geniuses or incredible dummies after this is over with. They have chosen this path, and there are some things that will likely happen before this is all over with. I can see some more pay cuts possibly(mainly for nun-union people who only took a 10% pay cut originally), and also a cut down of the heavy maintenence and more outsourcing. The selling of the DCI subsidiaries is almost a must now. That will give us needed cash to get us through this rough time, and give us time for our cost initiatives to actually work. We have stated that we want $5 billion in cost cuts per year by 2006----that would be great---but we have to get there first.......It will be a bumpy ride, and Boyd jumps on the band waggon with every airline that is having problems. Didn't he just say that all of the 50 seaters will be parked soon? When will that be?


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
GL said:
I can see some more pay cuts possibly(mainly for nun-union people who only took a 10% pay cut originally

Can you see more pay cuts for you guys as well? Do you think they won't ask you guys, or do you think you'll just tell them to pound sand?
 
chperplt said:
Can you see more pay cuts for you guys as well? Do you think they won't ask you guys, or do you think you'll just tell them to pound sand?

They may ask us, but it won't be as easy as TELLING the non-union people they will receive one. We probably won't fold as fast as you guys did.(unless they offer us some brand new E170s!!)


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
The main difference here with DL is that we only have one union. Boyd and the other analcysts that I have never heard of (time to get your name in the paper dear.....) don't realize this. DL can give pay cuts to everyone except their pilots. That is an advantage, although not a great one when it comes to morale. But, the initial 10% pay cut was too little IMO for every non-union and management person, and that will lead to more. The outsourcing of heavy maintenance will also bring in huge savings probably. And, the selling of ASA or Comair will give us that bridge of time to get our initiatives through.


This Boyd article doesn't point out anything new. We are still seeking help from Congress on the pension payments, and unless Congress wants many new Chap 11s to dump the pensions on the PBGC, they will help. It probably is all part of the "plan...."


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
8HRRULE said:
I agree. It looks like delta could be a goner.

This guy is a genius. How can I argue with a statement like that?


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Last edited:

Latest resources

Back
Top