Boyd Prognosticates

[nfg]

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Why is is that libs keep harping on this? Everyone knows this . . . . yet the libs keep throwing this out there, like they are surprising someone.

Well, if you read Brainhurts' post again, you will see why. He mentions 9/11 and Saddam like they are one and the same. That's all I was getting at.

I could go on and debate you on every ridiculous point you've raiosed, but why bother? You're mind (per se) is made up . . . .

I actually didn't really raise any new points. I just responded to BH. His post was just asinine. And, my mind is made up, yes. You, on the other hand are clearly on the fence about this.

Yeah right, give me a break.

 

[brainhurts]

NFG QUOTES
Brainhurts, I don't mean to hijack this thread, but after reading your post my brain really hurts. Dude, you need to read a book or something.

"Without or without Bush, 9-11 would have happened. Saddam was thumbing his nose at the resolutions that were supposed to constrain him."

First of all, Saddam didn't have anything to do with 9/11. http://www.9-11commission.gov/ Second, you're right, 9/11 would probably still have happened had someone else occupied the White House, but it would have a much better chance of getting stopped had someone actually read the Presidential Daily Briefs that actually mentioned the types of attacks Bin Laden was planning. The administration keeps coming up with plots that they have foiled since 9/11, so that makes me think that stopping an attack is definitely possible, if you just look in the right places. I'm not saying it would be easy, just possible. Pre 9/11, they screwed up. Also, Saddam was a bad guy, no question about it. But, how many other bad guys, with torture chambers etc, are out there? We don't seem to be going after them with the same gusto.

Dude, there is a period between the 2 sentences 9-11/Saddam. However, what you and your New York Times ilk are not reporting, are the recent documents released and declassified that do have a link to Saddam and Bin Laden! Iraq was trying to buy uranium from Niger! Your 9-11 commission filed their report prior to this info being released and they have been quoted with "had we known that..." quotes. Yes there were a lot of bad dictators out there, but this one was in defiance of the UN sanctions put in place to stop WMD production, and in the face of 9-11 we wanted to know where the WMD were. The same WMD that killed thousands of Kurds. Your ilk wants to say--"no WMD, Bush lies"--yet you stay quiet on the thousands of dead Kurds you KNOW were killed by WMD!
"WHERE DID THE WMD GO? No one denies they were there. Where are they?"

Actually, people do deny they were there. David Kay, Charles Duelfer, Hans Blix all said there was nothing there. We had the inspectors there before the war, until the US told them to leave just before the bombs started dropping, and what did they find? Bupkus. http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/25/sprj.nirq.kay/

Sorry Dude, Blix and associates now say "at the specific time prior to Operation Iraqi Freedom, there were no WMD" They are not saying "there were no WMD's in Iraq. See my reference to the Kurds above. Iraqi generals are testifing now that the WMD were moved to Syria. Your politics make you happy WMD's were not found. You can get with Barbara Streisand and call Bush a liar (while ignoring thousands of dead kurds) My politics say "where the hell did the death juice go?" Thaty was the point. The destruction of those WMD needed to be conducted under the auspices of the UN. There is no documentation of their destruction.
"Without Bush, Amamalingdong in Iran would still be enriching uranium and doing his best to be the next Sulliman."

They still are enriching uranium. Bush et al. hasn't done anything to stop that yet.

You war mongering SOB! You want W to drop tactical "bunker buster" bombs on those peaceful iraqi scientists over there enriching uranium! Sure, they are making their nukes to kill my children, but what about their rights? They are almost artists, and you would still their inner child with your stupid smart weapons.
"If you and your aunt Cindy were supporting this cause more instead of giving aid and comfort to the enemy, (who, by the way will not thank you by not nuking you) maybe freedom could get planted in the Arab world."

Dude, you can't plant freedom. No matter how hard you want it to happen, it won't unless the people there want it to happen. Unfortunately, religion and nationalism are more important for those people than freedom right now. I think people can learn more about freedom by actually seeing it in action. Like for example, someone's right to say whatever they want without being labeled unpatriotic or a crazy person, just because you don't agree with them. We need to learn that too.

Dude, I think we can plant freedom. I do not think it will be anywhere like our freedom due to the constraints of Islam, but if you take a Shira law society like the Taliban and stretch it from the Stan's to Malayasia, western civ as we know it will be stamped out in the most horrific pogrom man has ever seen. You can say whatever crazy a$$ thing you want to spew at any time. I have fought for your right to do so. I have lost an inordinate amount of family and friends in various conflicts. However, I can also "tell it like it is" with my freedom of speech. Jane Fonda today admits she was out of line in Vietnam. Why? Because she realizes she gave the enemy hope. Your side is doing that in a treasonous manner. I am being nice by calling it "unpatriotic"
"99 percent of the guys and gals "in theatre" are in support of the effort. They do not need you to speak for them."

They are speaking for themselves. The polled troops says this (among other things): "An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately." Read the article.
http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

Zogby can kiss my a$$. Like anything he does, he researches his "population" to define his questions. How accurate was he when he was trying to sway elections? Look, I have lived in the tents over there and as an airlift guy have brought home the dead bodies your side gleefully points to as a political tool to pull down Bush. While I was there, I showed great respect to the lowest ranking grunt because it was him that was on the tip of the spear, not me. My impression was one of great morale and spirit. Everyone of those guys would rather be home getting laied on a regular basis and living your sorry a$$ life, so yes, there are always complaints, but that is not what I saw.
I don't really want to start anything here, but your comments were just so ridiculous. If you want an argument, you need some facts. Turn off Fox News and read something.

Yeah, If I don't read what you read or watch what you watch, I'm ridiculous. How old are you son? What great accomplishment have you produced for your country that give you such a high opinion of yourself? I know you have watched every episode of "Friends" but that is hardly an endorsement. I am guessing late 20's with a liberal education. You are the poster child of the "meaning of the word is" crowd. I guess that because you got your news from CNN and pretty much everywhere but FOX, that you are right. Just look at the red states vs. the blue states. Your opinion is smaller but louder than mine. I'll speak at the ballot. I am betting your side loses again because the American people do see the threat.

 

[Benhuntn]

I had to add some more. The defensive war that the DEMs waged in the 90's was a complete failure. It gave us the WTC 93 bombing, the Khobar towers bombing, the attacks in Kenya and Dar eslaam. Followed by the USS Cole, the WTC and pentagon. War is no longer two armies meeting on the battle field that changed on 9/11. Now it is a group of radical terrorist bent on killing civilians. The failure of the defensive war was that it emboldened our enemies and convinced them we were weak and would not stand up to our enimies. We added further evidence to this effect in Somalia when we failed to supply our troops with necessary equipment and when the going got tough we pulled out. Now we must use the offensive war, a war the enemy can't win if we keep our resolve to see this through. Kill them all and let God sort them out. By the way forcing someone to stand on a box or do a group hug naked is not torture. Having your head cut off your body burned and hung from an over pass, that's torture. We need to make it clear what evil lurks in their minds.

 

[bvt1151]

Excuse me Dude, but you have responded to the origional thread with no consideration at all for the cat fight that has begun here. Please be more considerate in the future.

P.S. I agree with you on Boyd

Hysterical, and well said!

I concede to the flaming nature a thread with the name "Boyd" in it always seems to take.

 

[spacecadet1]

I say just kill them all, and let God sort it out.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Not exactly...

Actually, people do deny they were there. David Kay, Charles Duelfer, Hans Blix all said there was nothing there. We had the inspectors there before the war, until the US told them to leave just before the bombs started dropping, and what did they find? Bupkus.

Just to add to Brainhurts' comments, I have to add some more clarification here. It's not at all accurate to say that these inspectors have concluded that there were no WMD's in existance.

You'll find an interesting read in General Georges Sada's book, "Saddam's Secrets", which give a very detailed account of the events leading up to the Iraqi war. Sada was the Iraqi Vice Air Marshall, a fighter pilot trained in MIGs, the top combat officer of the Iraqi Air Force. He gives account of the WMD's that Iraq possessed, and also explains in great detail how the weapons were extricated to Syria in the months leading up to the Iraqi war in 2003.

Here is what was actually said by Duelfer, regarding Sada's claims of the existance of WMD's...

"The CIA’s chief weapons inspector said he cannot rule out the possibility that Iraqi weapons of mass destruction were secretly shipped to Syria before the March 2003 invasion, citing “sufficiently credible” evidence that WMDs may have been moved there.

Inspector Charles Duelfer, who heads the Iraq Survey Group (ISG), made the findings in an addendum to his final report filed last year. He said the search for WMD in Iraq—the main reason President Bush went to war to oust Saddam Hussein—has been exhausted without finding such weapons. Iraq had stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons in the early 1990s.

But on the question of Syria, Mr. Duelfer did not close the books. “ISG was unable to complete its investigation and is unable to rule out the possibility that WMD was evacuated to Syria before the war," Mr. Duelfer said in a report posted on the CIA’s Web site Monday night."


There are many others who actually confirm Sada's account, including Pentagon officials and high ranking Israelis, not the least of which was Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

By the way, I really recommend Sada's book. It's not just a story of Iraq and Saddam, but it's a good aviation read, too. Sada gives a great account of being the first Iraqi to fly the MIG21, and with no formal training to boot. He had to go from MIG17 to the 21 with no instructors, due to the USSR severing relations with Iraq , and the Russian instructors being sent back home. Pretty wild story.

 

[scoreboard]

Brainhurt for King!!

NFG QUOTES
Brainhurts, I don't mean to hijack this thread, but after reading your post my brain really hurts. Dude, you need to read a book or something.

"Without or without Bush, 9-11 would have happened. Saddam was thumbing his nose at the resolutions that were supposed to constrain him."

First of all, Saddam didn't have anything to do with 9/11. http://www.9-11commission.gov/ Second, you're right, 9/11 would probably still have happened had someone else occupied the White House, but it would have a much better chance of getting stopped had someone actually read the Presidential Daily Briefs that actually mentioned the types of attacks Bin Laden was planning. The administration keeps coming up with plots that they have foiled since 9/11, so that makes me think that stopping an attack is definitely possible, if you just look in the right places. I'm not saying it would be easy, just possible. Pre 9/11, they screwed up. Also, Saddam was a bad guy, no question about it. But, how many other bad guys, with torture chambers etc, are out there? We don't seem to be going after them with the same gusto.

Dude, there is a period between the 2 sentences 9-11/Saddam. However, what you and your New York Times ilk are not reporting, are the recent documents released and declassified that do have a link to Saddam and Bin Laden! Iraq was trying to buy uranium from Niger! Your 9-11 commission filed their report prior to this info being released and they have been quoted with "had we known that..." quotes. Yes there were a lot of bad dictators out there, but this one was in defiance of the UN sanctions put in place to stop WMD production, and in the face of 9-11 we wanted to know where the WMD were. The same WMD that killed thousands of Kurds. Your ilk wants to say--"no WMD, Bush lies"--yet you stay quiet on the thousands of dead Kurds you KNOW were killed by WMD!
"WHERE DID THE WMD GO? No one denies they were there. Where are they?"

Actually, people do deny they were there. David Kay, Charles Duelfer, Hans Blix all said there was nothing there. We had the inspectors there before the war, until the US told them to leave just before the bombs started dropping, and what did they find? Bupkus. http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/25/sprj.nirq.kay/

Sorry Dude, Blix and associates now say "at the specific time prior to Operation Iraqi Freedom, there were no WMD" They are not saying "there were no WMD's in Iraq. See my reference to the Kurds above. Iraqi generals are testifing now that the WMD were moved to Syria. Your politics make you happy WMD's were not found. You can get with Barbara Streisand and call Bush a liar (while ignoring thousands of dead kurds) My politics say "where the hell did the death juice go?" Thaty was the point. The destruction of those WMD needed to be conducted under the auspices of the UN. There is no documentation of their destruction.
"Without Bush, Amamalingdong in Iran would still be enriching uranium and doing his best to be the next Sulliman."

They still are enriching uranium. Bush et al. hasn't done anything to stop that yet.

You war mongering SOB! You want W to drop tactical "bunker buster" bombs on those peaceful iraqi scientists over there enriching uranium! Sure, they are making their nukes to kill my children, but what about their rights? They are almost artists, and you would still their inner child with your stupid smart weapons.
"If you and your aunt Cindy were supporting this cause more instead of giving aid and comfort to the enemy, (who, by the way will not thank you by not nuking you) maybe freedom could get planted in the Arab world."

Dude, you can't plant freedom. No matter how hard you want it to happen, it won't unless the people there want it to happen. Unfortunately, religion and nationalism are more important for those people than freedom right now. I think people can learn more about freedom by actually seeing it in action. Like for example, someone's right to say whatever they want without being labeled unpatriotic or a crazy person, just because you don't agree with them. We need to learn that too.

Dude, I think we can plant freedom. I do not think it will be anywhere like our freedom due to the constraints of Islam, but if you take a Shira law society like the Taliban and stretch it from the Stan's to Malayasia, western civ as we know it will be stamped out in the most horrific pogrom man has ever seen. You can say whatever crazy a$$ thing you want to spew at any time. I have fought for your right to do so. I have lost an inordinate amount of family and friends in various conflicts. However, I can also "tell it like it is" with my freedom of speech. Jane Fonda today admits she was out of line in Vietnam. Why? Because she realizes she gave the enemy hope. Your side is doing that in a treasonous manner. I am being nice by calling it "unpatriotic"
"99 percent of the guys and gals "in theatre" are in support of the effort. They do not need you to speak for them."

They are speaking for themselves. The polled troops says this (among other things): "An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately." Read the article.
http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

Zogby can kiss my a$$. Like anything he does, he researches his "population" to define his questions. How accurate was he when he was trying to sway elections? Look, I have lived in the tents over there and as an airlift guy have brought home the dead bodies your side gleefully points to as a political tool to pull down Bush. While I was there, I showed great respect to the lowest ranking grunt because it was him that was on the tip of the spear, not me. My impression was one of great morale and spirit. Everyone of those guys would rather be home getting laied on a regular basis and living your sorry a$$ life, so yes, there are always complaints, but that is not what I saw.
I don't really want to start anything here, but your comments were just so ridiculous. If you want an argument, you need some facts. Turn off Fox News and read something.

Yeah, If I don't read what you read or watch what you watch, I'm ridiculous. How old are you son? What great accomplishment have you produced for your country that give you such a high opinion of yourself? I know you have watched every episode of "Friends" but that is hardly an endorsement. I am guessing late 20's with a liberal education. You are the poster child of the "meaning of the word is" crowd. I guess that because you got your news from CNN and pretty much everywhere but FOX, that you are right. Just look at the red states vs. the blue states. Your opinion is smaller but louder than mine. I'll speak at the ballot. I am betting your side loses again because the American people do see the threat.

Excellent, Dude!!

 

[D.sanchez]

For all of the people saying Iraq had WMD's.... this is flat out untrue.....according to Former National Defense Secretary and current U.S. Secretary of State Condilizza Rice.... in a Meet the Press Interview she admitted Iraq had no WMD's. Period. I put the whole quote in so you guys don't accuse me of taking her words out of context. Sure, she makes some other arguments for justifying the war... but let's be 100% clear... Saddam didn't have WMD's. Period. Why some people on this forum are saying he did is beyond me at this point. Every time Sean Hannity or others like him say Saddam had WMD's it get sick to my stomach, because it's a lie. Stop lying to yourselves.. He had no WMD's.

MR. RUSSERT: But people are being asked to take your judgement on this, as we sit here this morning, and refer to previous judgements the administration made: weapons of mass destruction, there were none; we would be greeted as liberators, this is three years later; that it would not take hundreds of thousands of American troops to occupy Iraq. Tommy Franks, according to the book “Cobra II,” said we’d be down to 30,000 troops in November of ‘03. The cost of the war: the budget director of the White House said it’d be $50 billion dollars, it’s now over $350 billion dollars. Each judgement has proven to be wrong.
SEC’Y RICE: The judgement that has not proven to be wrong, Tim, is that the region is changing in fundamental ways and the region is better without Saddam Hussein. Yes, it is true that everyone thought he had weapons of mass destruction; he did not. It is, by the way, the case that the Iraqis are delighted to be rid of him. And some Iraqis, most Iraqis, in fact, are willing and want to keep coalition forces there until they can take care of this themselves. But we do have to keep things in historical perspective. These people are doing something that is quite unknown in the Middle East, and one has to ask, “What was the alternative?” Was the alternative to leave Saddam Hussein in power, continuing to threaten his neighbors, continuing with his windfall profits from the Oil for Food scandal, continuing to repress his people and build mass graves, continuing to use those Oil for Food profits to, again, build the infrastructure for his weapons of mass destruction?

 

[filejw]

When hauling troops I have asked and I get "poorly planned, poor intelligence, poorly manned "almost every time.Pretty sad when this comes from a O7 or E8 and its hers or his third deployment.

 

[gobucks]

Dude, I think we can plant freedom. I do not think it will be anywhere like our freedom due to the constraints of Islam, but if you take a Shira law society like the Taliban and stretch it from the Stan's to Malayasia, western civ as we know it will be stamped out in the most horrific pogrom man has ever seen. You can say whatever crazy a$$ thing you want to spew at any time. I have fought for your right to do so. I have lost an inordinate amount of family and friends in various conflicts. However, I can also "tell it like it is" with my freedom of speech. Jane Fonda today admits she was out of line in Vietnam. Why? Because she realizes she gave the enemy hope. Your side is doing that in a treasonous manner. I am being nice by calling it "unpatriotic"
"99 percent of the guys and gals "in theatre" are in support of the effort. They do not need you to speak for them."

They are speaking for themselves. The polled troops says this (among other things): "An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately." Read the article.
http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

Zogby can kiss my a$$. Like anything he does, he researches his "population" to define his questions. How accurate was he when he was trying to sway elections? Look, I have lived in the tents over there and as an airlift guy have brought home the dead bodies your side gleefully points to as a political tool to pull down Bush. While I was there, I showed great respect to the lowest ranking grunt because it was him that was on the tip of the spear, not me. My impression was one of great morale and spirit. Everyone of those guys would rather be home getting laied on a regular basis and living your sorry a$$ life, so yes, there are always complaints, but that is not what I saw.
I don't really want to start anything here, but your comments were just so ridiculous. If you want an argument, you need some facts. Turn off Fox News and read something.

Yeah, If I don't read what you read or watch what you watch, I'm ridiculous. How old are you son? What great accomplishment have you produced for your country that give you such a high opinion of yourself? I know you have watched every episode of "Friends" but that is hardly an endorsement. I am guessing late 20's with a liberal education. You are the poster child of the "meaning of the word is" crowd. I guess that because you got your news from CNN and pretty much everywhere but FOX, that you are right. Just look at the red states vs. the blue states. Your opinion is smaller but louder than mine. I'll speak at the ballot. I am betting your side loses again because the American people do see the threat.[/QUOTE]

It's gotta feel good to be so enraged and self-righteous all the time, brainhurts. Where can I get some of that medicine? I'm proud of my service too, but I love it how guys with your mind-set think you can be so condescending to someone without time in service. I thought nfg presented his opinion rather well with a couple of good sources, and you start throwing out the tired 'Jane Fonda'-this and 'Barbara Streisand'-thats. I wanted blood just as bad as anyone on 9/11, and I thought our fight was and is with radical, violent Islam. The new regime in Tehran that's developing nuclear weapons fits that bill much better than Saddam did, and it'll be interesting to see if we have the resources to deal with it. There are plenty of military folks of all ranks who agree with the "poorly planned, poor intelligence, poorly manned" that filejw mentioned. That has nothing to do with the folks in uniform, and everything to do with a lack of leadership at the civilian top. Don't expect me to join you thumping your chest, with your arrogant 11th grade retorts stolen from Bill O'Reilly, and that if I don't agree with you that I'm doing so in "in a treasonous manner". Your mischosen words, not mine.