Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Boyd on UAL Part I

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Extra300S

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2003
Posts
104
United: Where From Here?

Now that the ATSB has finally closed the door on United for a loan guarantee, the lemming-section of the media over the past week has been casting lots to determine just where United will be cutting service, selling off assets, and generally taking a knife to itself.

The Issue Is Cost v Revenue. Not Big v Small. Here's a concept that many aviation reporters have missed: Who says that United will need to significantly downsize to survive? Somehow, we can't find that extra Commandment anywhere in all the stuff that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai.

True, the airline is losing money, even after huge reductions in labor costs, and cram-downs on many of its aircraft leases. True, United needs to get costs down further. True, oil prices have spiked United's fuel bill up by a reported $750 million. As a result, the usual suspects in the media are speculating what United will sell-off, close, or discontinue. This is because the assumption is that a cost problem is solved by just getting smaller. Here's some news: the cost/revenue equation is not necessarily fixed by downsizing.

No, They Don't Need To Match Southwest CASM. The contention that United needs to get costs down further is completely correct. But to survive, it's got to do a lot more. It must re-focus on the extraordinary strengths United has in the areas of market position and brand-equity. This is where the airline's real future lies, not in just cost-cutting.

A common - and inaccurate - belief is that UA must have Southwest CASM to survive. Wrong. Instead it must have a cost/revenue equation that produces numbers that aren't in brackets at the bottom of the P&L. What these compare-it-to-Southwest people miss is that United is a different airline from Southwest or JetBlue, or AirTran. Different route system, different revenue mix, and a different part of the air transportation system.

If CASM alone were the Source Perrier of airline success, the skies today would be black with airplanes operated by Vanguard, Pacific Express, Northeastern, American International, Western Pacific, Eastwind, Air South, and a whole gaggle of other Southwest wannabes. They're gone, not because of cost issues, but revenue issues. Like, they didn't have any. (And don't buy into the canard that the big guys killed them off - that's mostly trendy lore.) The reason they went glub-glub was because they had zero - or less - brand loyalty.

Brand loyalty, truth be known, is one of United's most potent strengths.

Here's an airline with outstanding operational stats. On-time performance. Schedule reliability. Employees that when dealing with passengers display an attitude that some other airlines can't even get close to. Customer service that is arguably among the best and most professional in the industry. A route system that makes some sense, including a fifth-freedom hub at Tokyo that's in the right place at the right time to take advantage of what will be huge traffic growth into China.

Conclusion: Yes, United needs to get their costs down. But they also need to focus on their core strengths, which are excellence in product delivery, and a strong brand identity. These are things absent from United's loopy cartoon-style ads. It's also counter to the Ted concept as well. (We could also mention the daily Martian Fire Drill, a.k.a the UAX operation on Concourse F at O'Hare, which has raised the concept of total confusion to an art form. But that can be easily fixed if somebody in the head office would bother.)

Time For An Executive Search, Too. And that brings up the issue of leadership. Maybe it's time to re-populate the front offices. To be fair, running an airline, especially one in United's position, isn't easy. Despite politically-correct populist rhetoric, nobody in their right mind would take these top jobs unless the compensation, either upfront or on the near-term come line, was in the respectable seven-digit range. These people may go home at night, but the job comes along with them.

But that much said, the executive track record so far at United is not encouraging. United's employees have certainly come to the save-the-airline dance party. But there's an open question whether the trio at the top are in attendance. Despite some aggressively-placed sunshine stories about the CEO in recent weeks, the fact is that the whole plan at the top seems to have revolved around cutting labor costs, re-negotiating aircraft leases, passing off a paint job (Ted) as a low-cost carrier, and finally, financing it with a government-guaranteed loan.

This is even with the phalanxes of "advisors" reportedly working for the airline. In one case, some news stories indicated that the airline was spending a million bucks a month for advice on how to re-structure the United Express system. That begs the question: who's running the store?

Likely: More Requests For Labor Give-Backs. And, Downsizing. The fact remains that even with huge employee concessions, United isn't making any money. That means something has to give. Add to that the track record in the executive offices, which seems to be more show than go when it comes to hard forward strategy, and the media pundits will probably be proven right. Downsizing may well be the new non-strategy.

Maybe the Tokyo operation goes on the block. Maybe some additional Heathrow slots will be put up for auction. Maybe there will be demands to let small jet providers take over more of the United route systems. Maybe a lot of things. But if the revenues drop as fast as the cuts, the result is simply a downsized Titanic. Maybe.

And that's just the crux of the United problem. It seems when it comes to forward-thinking strategy, everything's a "maybe."

Continued.....
 
This is too funny.

I said this same stuff about Delta two years ago. The difference is that Delta really does have brand loyalty. Most of the United customers I know of hate the airline . . . it's a trifecta of poor service, buffoonish management and union greed. all rolled into one.
 
Ty Webb said:
This is too funny.

I said this same stuff about Delta two years ago. The difference is that Delta really does have brand loyalty. Most of the United customers I know of hate the airline . . . it's a trifecta of poor service, buffoonish management and union greed. all rolled into one.
As opposed to cheap death at Air Trash. As to service, Air Trash leads the league in crap service. the ONLY reason you exist is because of scumbags like you who couldn't get a better job, even with mommies help. GTH Ty.
 
T-Bags said:
As opposed to cheap death at Air Trash. As to service, Air Trash leads the league in crap service. the ONLY reason you exist is because of scumbags like you who couldn't get a better job, even with mommies help. GTH Ty.
They let you use the CPU on break at Home Depot?
 
T-Bags is the only person on my "ignore" list.

I learned a long time ago that he has nothing intelligent to say, so why bother reading it?

"Airtran is bad, and is really only Valujet with new airplanes, new management, new pilots, new corporate philosophy, Valujet Flight #593, Florida Everglades, . blah, blah, blah".

Good luck, there., T-Bags. You look great in your orange apron.
 
FWIW,

I've been with AirTran for almost a year after flying for a major airline for the previous seven. I'll start by saying that the training at AirTran was excellent. Every bit as good as what I was accustomed to. After flying the line, I found the airplanes to be clean and well maintained.

The employees, especially the F/A's, do a great job with the people, and our product, including our business class, stacks up against any of the legacy carrier's domestic product. Additionally, we have increasing brand loyalty because of a simple frequent flier program, which UAL has recently emulated, low fares and a preference by most travelers to fly a 717 as opposed to an RJ.

Furthermore, with over 10,000 applicants on file for a pilot position, I don't think its fair to assume that Ty is only working here because he couldn't get hired anywhere else.

Don't blame us for UALs problems.
 
Thanks . . . . Sometimes I get tired of fending off idiots who seem to have a lot invested in believeing that we are all inferior beings, and if we just went away, they'd be back in the cockpit instead of the forklift. Of course, their own management, union personnel and Muslim Whackos have nothing to do with it . . . it's all a bunch of unqualified pilots that are to blame for their current situation.
 
Ty Webb said:
Thanks . . . . Sometimes I get tired of fending off idiots who seem to have a lot invested in believeing that we are all inferior beings, and if we just went away, they'd be back in the cockpit instead of the forklift. Of course, their own management, union personnel and Muslim Whackos have nothing to do with it . . . it's all a bunch of unqualified pilots that are to blame for their current situation.
So "Ty", where did I blame UAL's "woes" on Valudeath/airtrash? i merely pointed out that your only means of existance is to be CHEAP. Yet YOU, the K-Mart of aviation, throw stones at Home Depot? You crack me up.

From the latest DOT report.

Customer Complaints

AirTrash 19/19

On time rate (last 12 months)

AirTrash 15/17

The ironic thing is that most "LCC's" rate highly in the customer complaint department. You set expectations low and fail to meet them. For the record, I AM attacking your BS attempt to portray UAL as anything but a top notch customer oriented airline. You got turned down because you're an ass, get over it.
 
"Furthermore, with over 10,000 applicants on file for a pilot position, I don't think its fair to assume that Ty is only working here because he couldn't get hired anywhere else.'

Ty didn't get hired when they had "10,00 applications on file".

"The employees, especially the F/A's, do a great job with the people, and our product, including our business class, stacks up against any of the legacy carrier's domestic product. Additionally, we have increasing brand loyalty because of a simple frequent flier program, which UAL has recently emulated, low fares and a preference by most travelers to fly a 717 as opposed to an RJ."

yeah right, 19/19 in customer complaints. you couldn't even out do the regionals in customer satisfactions... GMAFB.
 
T-Bags, I don't have a beef with you, but when you are on a guy's ignore list, it is usually pointless to write him.
 
SMMustang said:
T-Bags, I don't have a beef with you, but when you are on a guy's ignore list, it is usually pointless to write him.
Do you really think I am? Get real.... ;) . Poor kid has a chip on his shoulder. Mommy got him a job flying corporates but couldn't get him on with a major during quite possibly the biggest boom in aviation history, so he spends his time attacking airlines that actually have standards. If he was correct even 2% of the time, it would be OK.
 
I don't fly for AirTran, but I will say the service has been outstanding every time I have jumpseated: from the pilots to the flight attendants to the gate agents. They have been a pleasure to catch a ride with.
 
Ummm - standards?

Of all the legacy carriers, I think UAL has compromised its standards more often and to a greater degree than the others. (AA, DAL, NW)

This is no dig on all the pilots at UAL who were actually qualifed and SHOULD have their jobs, but lets not kid ourselves about, well, no sense in restating what we all know.

Some people's "qualification" were measured in a VERY different way.

Standards, my rear end.
 
When Boyd says things are going to be OK, I get worried
 
T-Bags said:
"Furthermore, with over 10,000 applicants on file for a pilot position, I don't think its fair to assume that Ty is only working here because he couldn't get hired anywhere else.'

Ty didn't get hired when they had "10,00 applications on file".

"The employees, especially the F/A's, do a great job with the people, and our product, including our business class, stacks up against any of the legacy carrier's domestic product. Additionally, we have increasing brand loyalty because of a simple frequent flier program, which UAL has recently emulated, low fares and a preference by most travelers to fly a 717 as opposed to an RJ."

yeah right, 19/19 in customer complaints. you couldn't even out do the regionals in customer satisfactions... GMAFB.

EXCELLENT POINT T-BAGS!!!!!!!!!
 
T-BAgs isn't quite sharp enough to realize that he's arguing with himself.
Give T-Bags a break, though, . . . . because Home Depot sure didn't this weekend.

Extra? He's got to stand up for T-Bags . . . he's hoping if ol' Bags gets the recall, he'll get his travel benefits as his "Significant other".
 
Talk about your passive-aggressive potshots. Do you have any proof that Extra and Bags are "companions"? What a piece of work.

I'd be willing to bet that Bags is making more money that you,Ty and I doubt its at Home Depot. So save your little potshots.

asbestos suit on, ready for incoming.

bpapa
 
A few weeks ago, I was flying home after a trip. I had to connect in Atlanta on an Atlanta-based carrier, that was NOT AirTran. This other Atlanta-based carrier impressed me, because they were only two hours late getting me home. As I was sitting in a window seat still at the gate, I saw tons of AirTran flights taxi by to go to the runway. They kept giving us on BS excuse after another as to why we havent' moved yet. Finally, about the time we were supposed to be 10 minutes from touchdown, we started inching backwards from the gate. Then, it was another 25 minutes until we took off.

I have had the misfortune of travelling on them about a half a dozen times, and every time I've flown on them something has gotten dorked up. Just a week before this, my flight was cancelled out of an outstation, and we were rebooked on Northwest. Now, I know every airline isn't perfect, but c'mon, this happens all the time this carrier.

I've flown AirTran before, and thought the service was top-notch, people were friendly, and we even arrived early. I won't say who this other carrier is, but they Don't Ever Leave The Airport!!!!!

I never jumpseat on them (or their affiliates), I don't ever buy tickets on them, and I don't recommend them when familiy or friends ask who they should fly. By the way, my Aunt has had her bags lost twice, so
Don't Expect Luggage To Arrive either!!
 
Sometimes I am required to position on other airlines to where my assignment is located. In those instances, my company purchases a ticket for me. In other words, I am NOT jumpseating. Recently, I did a position on Airtran and one on United. The Airtran flights were conducted on new and clean B-717 aircraft. The cabin temperature was kept comfortable at the gate and throughout the flight. The gate personnel and F/A's were friendly and smiling. The United flight I was on was in an older 737-300. The interior of the airplane was dirty and worn. There were holes in the floor carpet, rips in the seating upholstery, and the seatback pockets were filled with trash from the previous flight despite the fact that this plane had overnighted at this station. The interior was unbelievably hot while we were on the ground despite a fully functioning APU. The gate personnel were friendly but the F/A's were definitely NOT. One F/A shushed the passengers like a 1st Grade Teacher while he read the connecting gates and during his overwing exit briefing. In short, I sincerely hope I am booked on AirTran instead of United in the future. However, I hope United turns their product around, they were once a great airline. I have many friends working there that have their future's at stake.
 
Extra300S said:
United: Where From Here?

Employees that when dealing with passengers display an attitude that some other airlines can't even get close to. Customer service that is arguably among the best and most professional in the industry.

Continued.....
I think I pooped my pants that is so funny!

Tailwinds...
 

Latest resources

Back
Top