Boyd on Delta

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[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Musings.... Delta Air Lines[/FONT]

[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Last week, Delta held a huge party for employees and vendors to celebrate its emergence from Chapter 11, as well as showcase its fundamental restructuring to compete in the new airline industry.[/FONT]

[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Its Chairman, Gerald Grinstein, rose to attempt to make a presentation at the beginning of the event. But as soon as he took the podium, the employees drowned him out - with a spontaneous, enthusiastic - raucous, if you will - standing ovation. The man couldn't get a word in edgewise for five minutes.[/FONT]

[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Now, amid the nonsense coming from a few of the usual suspects in the financial industry, expressing concerns about Delta's competitiveness going forward, let's put this incident into context in regard to where Delta really stands in the industry today.[/FONT]

[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Let's skip over the fact that Delta didn't completely zap their employees' pensions. Let's ignore for the moment that Delta employees came out of C-11 with bonuses and stock in their company. And we won't go into little details, like in 19-months of bankruptcy protection, Delta re-framed itself, re-focused its route system, hired some of the best and brightest management away from the competition, and fixed pesky things like revenue gaps and stuff like that. [/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Let's just focus on the fact that after a year and a half of going through the grief and pain of a bankruptcy re-organization, Delta employees will give their CEO a standing ovation. We would submit that this represents a far more fundamental and valuable achievement.[/FONT]

[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Think about it. It's great to have lower operating costs. It's great to have a re-structured, re-focused product. But the hard reality is that an airline will rise or fall on the quality of its service. Quality of service depends on how employees view their company and its senior management. [/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]At Delta, the employees are giving their Chairman standing ovations. [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Wonder what the reaction would be in the same situation if Glenn Tilton addressed a similar group of United employees. Or if American's Gerard Arpey took the podium in front of a non-staged, non-filtered employee meeting. All three carriers represent employees that are at the top-of-the-line in terms of quality and professionalism. [/FONT]

[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Think about the fundamental differences in the way Delta treated its employees, and the situations at AA and UA - the well publicized situations - regarding how management treated itself, and treated its employees.[/FONT]

[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Again, at Delta, the employees are giving their Chairman standing ovations. [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Now, ask yourself which carrier is better postured for the future.[/FONT]
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[HalinTexas]

I was in ATL last week, when all the parties started. I was watching TV and several times the local news showed employees happy and cheering, except fo the pilots they showed. They didn't look all that happy, very few smiles. It was kinda funny in a sad sort of way. You could tell they weren't completely happy by the looks on their faces. More of a smirk.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Fact is that we have the golden handcuffs on and they knew it. That is why we did not keep the pensions. That and the whole money issue. Fact is that most of the other employee groups did. Good for them, but I am guessing that Delta will have a steep uphill battle in 09 when the CBA becomes amendable. The pilots are going to want some of their money and benefits back, and they should. They gave a lot.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ACL - Of course you are right.

Overall, I think Delta did much less harm to its employees than other airlines in similar situations did. Delta bought the senior guys off the list allowing the other pilots to advance and managed to keep some of the pension intact.

It was a bad situation and employees seem to realize they are better off than if they had been at United, NorthWest, or US Air.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It was a lot better than other places. But we has pilots will never see it that way. The pilot group is not happy. They feel that now since DAL will be making all of this money, they got the short stick. I would too. I will not have a pension. That was one of the silver linings of this job.

 

[FDJ2]

ACL - Of course you are right.

Overall, I think Delta did much less harm to its employees than other airlines in similar situations did. Delta bought the senior guys off the list allowing the other pilots to advance and managed to keep some of the pension intact.

It was a bad situation and employees seem to realize they are better off than if they had been at United, NorthWest, or US Air.

Just to be clear, DAL didn't "buy" the senior guys off the list, the senior guys were contractually allowed to take their pension as a 50% lump sum. If it had been up to management at the time, there is no way they would have allowed it.

If we came out of this o.k. it was because we learned from the US and UAL experience and we were able to maintain the unity required to conduct a virtual strike. The level of uncertainty created in the minds of senior management and the traveling public gave us the leverage we needed to maintain our work rules, drastically reduce the other concessions sought by management and obtain a $2.1B claim and $650M note for our 3.5 year concessionary contract.

 

[DAL737FO]

ACL65PILOT,

Are you a new hire?

 

[doh]

Back on topic, isn't a high percentage of your flying outsourced to DCI? 49% if I remember correctly. That's 49% who did not give a standing ovation. Hasn't the Grinreaper been voiceing concern about the service provided by these "lift providers" (quote from Boyd)? How many times can you change these outfits from one group who doesn't care about your product to another group who doesn't care about your product? I think that should be of great concern to management. But I don't think this current group will be around long enough for it to affect them.

 

[FDJ2]

Back on topic, isn't a high percentage of your flying outsourced to DCI? 49% if I remember correctly.

Approximately 15%-18% of DAL pax fly on a DCI small jet provider, the overwhelming number of whom ultimately connect onto a mainline aircraft.

 

[Pat Fabin]

ACL65,

I don't think that any one person can say what this pilot group is feeling right now, especially someone as new to the company as you. I'm glad you are here, I hope you are happy here, and I'd be happy to buy you a beer on a layover...but with all due respect, please stop speaking for the entire group. You weren't here over the last several years, so don't post like you have been.

 

[Captain Overs]

I'm just curious if Delta employees give their chairman standing ovations?

 

[FlyingSig]

I'm glad you are here, I hope you are happy here, and I'd be happy to buy you a beer on a layover...but with all due respect, please stop speaking for the entire group. You weren't here over the last several years, so don't post like you have been.

Glad I'm not the only one who has been thinking this the last few weeks of the ACL65 kool-aid fest.

 

[jonjuan]

Glad I'm not the only one who has been thinking this the last few weeks of the ACL65 kool-aid fest.

I also thought that was strange.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I will shut up. I am using the positions of my friends who lived through it in the first person. The fact is that the way that it is in the school house is a lot different that it is on the line (IE real world) that was what I was trying to convey. But fact is that I only have a perspective of out looking in. I never stated that I was one of you. I still am not. Not until I am off of my probation will I claim that. This is the reason that I used the third person and not the first. My point of view is very different of Delta's situation. I am glad that you are hiring. I like many watched the door slam shut in 01 and have waited a long time to come over here.

 

[anewunion]

I don't see how ACL65PILOT said anything wrong. Yeah, we may be drinking the Kool-aid, but we all know what reality is. Some new Kool-aid to the punch bowl may just lead to a stonger DAL.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Quite true, but I think what most people forget is that on the best day this board is about opinion. I have mine and he has his.
On a side note, who is bidding 7ER ATL?

 

[General Lee]

Glad I'm not the only one who has been thinking this the last few weeks of the ACL65 kool-aid fest.

I don't mind reading his kool aid fest. You and I do know what it is like out on the line, but unless you are in training constantly or have just done recurrent, you don't know what is being said in the training arena. Sometimes they have good gouge. I want to hear it. If he is overly excited, then that is good. The way I see it, things can only improve here after what we have been through, and things are trending upward right now.

ACL65---keep bringing in the good rumors and your insight please.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Back on topic, isn't a high percentage of your flying outsourced to DCI? 49% if I remember correctly. That's 49% who did not give a standing ovation. Hasn't the Grinreaper been voiceing concern about the service provided by these "lift providers" (quote from Boyd)? How many times can you change these outfits from one group who doesn't care about your product to another group who doesn't care about your product? I think that should be of great concern to management. But I don't think this current group will be around long enough for it to affect them.

Lots of outsourcing. They've been doing it a long time and they may do more of it. UAL, NWA, and USAir do the same.

Pinnacle will be the newest with some 70+ seaters.

Concern? Maybe. But it's working and won't change anytime soon.

 

[UALjan15]

[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]At Delta, the employees are giving their Chairman standing ovations. [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Wonder what the reaction would be in the same situation if Glenn Tilton addressed a similar group of United employees. [/FONT]
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I think we just found out the answer to that....I heard from a UAL buddy that Tilton was ambushed at a large presentation by a large group of disgruntled pilots, and when he left the room he had to walk through a gauntlet of them. As he walked, they each tossed their hat down in his path.

Is there anyone who was there that can provide a more accurate description?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Like I have said before, everyone over on VA ave is very bullish of the prospects. We will see how this plays out over the next six months, but at least they are not professing doom and gloom these days.
The whole idea of the more money we save, means the more we make, which translates to better pay and bonuses, is really hammered home. I think that long term DAL has better chance than most.

 

[doh]

Approximately 15%-18% of DAL pax fly on a DCI small jet provider, the overwhelming number of whom ultimately connect onto a mainline aircraft.

15-18% buying a Delta ticket on some one else who does not care about your product is a lot. That is my only point. I don't really have a dog in this hunt any more, except that I get stuck flying in your system a lot, so I see the difference personally.

 

[ualdriver]

I think we just found out the answer to that....I heard from a UAL buddy that Tilton was ambushed at a large presentation by a large group of disgruntled pilots, and when he left the room he had to walk through a gauntlet of them. As he walked, they each tossed their hat down in his path.

Is there anyone who was there that can provide a more accurate description?

That's pretty much how it happened. There are some pictures floating around somewhere with the "receiving line" of pilots throwing their hats down as he made a dash for the bus.

 

[av8n]

If we came out of this o.k. it was because we learned from the US and UAL experience and we were able to maintain the unity required to conduct a virtual strike. The level of uncertainty created in the minds of senior management and the traveling public gave us the leverage we needed to maintain our work rules

What the hell is a Virtual Strike? You either strike or don't strike. There are no in betweens.

Maintain our work rules? You have got to be smoking some really good dope to come to a conclusion like that!

Everytime I go out on the line and there is a small cloud looming near ATL, Crew Tracking decides to call it a "IROP", a "Weather delay" or some other lame excuse. Crew Tracking calls it a Reroute and then ALL bets are off.

It is not until you get the shaft a few times do you finally come to the realization that there are few, if any, workrules worth something, left.

It would help if the ALPA negotiators, who allegedly knew how to negiotate, as well as the MEC and LEC who passed off on these guttless TA's, had to fly The Line more often and see the ramifications of what they do!

 

[General Lee]

What the hell is a Virtual Strike? You either strike or don't strike. There are no in betweens.

Maintain our work rules? You have got to be smoking some really good dope to come to a conclusion like that!

Everytime I go out on the line and there is a small cloud looming near ATL, Crew Tracking decides to call it a "IROP", a "Weather delay" or some other lame excuse. Crew Tracking calls it a Reroute and then ALL bets are off.

It is not until you get the shaft a few times do you finally come to the realization that there are few, if any, workrules worth something, left.

It would help if the ALPA negotiators, who allegedly knew how to negiotate, as well as the MEC and LEC who passed off on these guttless TA's, had to fly The Line more often and see the ramifications of what they do!

Can you hold the 767ER? If you could, I bet the constant IROP problems would stop for you, due to the fact that you are coming in from Europe and can't be used again. The MD88 guys are used and abused because the trips have gaps that can be used for other things. Try a bigger plane and change your lifestyle.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

15-18% buying a Delta ticket on some one else who does not care about your product is a lot. That is my only point. I don't really have a dog in this hunt any more, except that I get stuck flying in your system a lot, so I see the difference personally.

If your point is that 15-18% of those passengers have to endure an inferior product, point well taken.

Management finally gets it too. The Leo, Fred and Michelle CRJ lovefest is over. Expect to see the DCI "foot print" contract to more reasonable levels.