Boyd negative on SkyBus, thinks its' dumb idea

[Philerup]

I don't know why. I haven't asked anyone who works there. What I am encouraging is instead of trying to understand someones motivation or insult them, spend that energy figuring out how to negate the impact. My contention is that insults and blacklists are not the way. We have to deal with the reality that they and VA have a certificate and are flying. The why is no longer important. Time to deal with the way things are, not what we wish they were.

 

[vixin]

While I agree with you in a small way. I cannot accept the fact the these morons think it is OK to fly for those wages.

 

[skiandsurf]

Stop with the doctor comparison too, and the number of lives responsible for. We need to negotiate from a place of honesty, not inflated ego's. We deserve to be compensated well because we spend half of our life away from home in the service of our companies. We also have multiple opportunities to lose our career at the drop of a hat. For that we deserve good pay. We are not heroes and this is not a hard job. It has it's stressful moments, but for the most part it is not that bad. We deserve good pay to make up for all the time we miss, no more no less. Save the hero stories for the drunk chick at the bar.

I agree with most of what you say, in fact this is what I have been saying. If the "good" airlines would hire the "qualified" pilots, there wouldnt be anyone left for Skybus. I know a few of the guys at Skybus, and they are all very qualified and great guys.

But the "hero" bit, we are not heros. We are pilots that manage a crew, passengers, and other variables that we run up against (wx, mx, ATC, sick pax, emerg situations, etc). Sure, when everything is going good, the job is easy.....just the the CEOs job. When sh!t starts to hit the fan, we step up to the plate and earn our pay.

Remember this, next time your buddy or neighbor asks "how was your trip?" your answer should be something like..."the flights were smooth, but I missed my kids graduation on the second day of the trip, then my wife called saying that the washing machine leaked water all over the floor, damaging the carpet. Then I had a co-pilot that got food poisoning and we had to get a replacement, this delaying our flight by 1 hour, with screaming passengers. Then one day, the airport was fogged in, and we did an approach to minimums. And the hotel, that is usually good, was busy with teenage kids, and I didnt get any sleep on the last night. I am wiped out. How was your week at work?"

 

[capt. megadeth]

Dude, I had too much to drink tonight to type. :bawling:

Having worked crap jobs, I can say that I still think 65K is too low for an A320 capt. I can see it for 1st or 2nd year FO, but a CAPTAIN of an A320???? Too low!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What does an FO make?

 

[dtfl]

Boyd will get fried on this one. Maybe we will forget the reasons Skybus has troubles and just remember Boyd's prediction they will fail. If that is true he may get away unscathed. He always messes up his reasons.

Whether or not Skybus lasts is an unknown, but it does not look too good.

At a minimum, they will make a big, temporary splash.

They chose a hub relatively near CVG. Delta's stronghold and the source of huge fares and profits for Delta. Delta's profit will go down.

Do we really think we have this LCC thing totally figured out and have crystalized it into the the only shape it can take? Ryan Air has torn the cover off the ball. There is a chance Skybus will to.

Boyd really falls down trying to look at what SWA is doing in response to competition and looking at Skybus. This value thing is a moving target and you change it around and try new things to keep, as well as attract, new customers. Skybus is in attract mode.

SWA's, and everyone elses', reaction to Skybus will be different. We may see a good ole' fashioned fare war for a time. But maybe not right away. I also think airlines will adopt some of Skybus' new ways. You'll see. I'll be back to tell you I told you so. Boyd won't admit his error.


All I know for sure is profits on routes into and out of Columbus and Cincinnati will go down for awhile.

Ryan air is doing well, but Europe and the US are totally different markets!
Europe is FULL of kids and gipsy's (my Borat coming out) who will fly them for next to nothing...we in the U.S at least want a coke.

 

[General Lee]

Now there's an oxymoron. :laugh:

You laugh, but we used to be one of the most profitable airlines on the planet. Then, we had management blunders like buying $2 billion in stock back (aren't you guys buying stock back?) two weeks before 9-11, and watching that evaporate before our eyes. Blunders. And look, now you guys are getting some bad press and downgrades. You just never know.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SNOWBUM]

I wouldnt complain if I could come to work with a pair of cut-off jeans, tattooed sleves, my ears pierced, and then go smoke a big fattie during my lunch break. But I cant.

snowbum likes the way you think....I do miss those fatties

 

[Green]

Here's an idea fly for Skybus as a Airbus Captain, 7-8 mts from now when an ALPA carrier merges with them, you'll now be senior to 12-15 year pilots. That's the trend. Any thoughts??

Read the Nicalau award before you go spouting off with nonsense. Alpa merger policy takes into account the value of jobs brought to the table and expected career progression among other items. Now the career progression of a Skybus Captain is to make 65k plus or minus a couple dollars for the rest of his/her career. If you stapled the number 1 skybus pilot to the bottom of any airline in this country you would not cost the Skybus pilot a single dollar with regards to his future earnings. He had no reasonable expectation of ever making 150k/plus...

Now if AAA had gone DOH we (awa) would have captains making 140/hr and holding a good line suddenly slotted below furloughed pilots with no expectation of EVER being recalled. Two totally different scenarios...

Many don't realize that Nicalaou is sharper than most of us will ever be and he didn't pull this one out of his hat....

 

[NEDude]

Having worked crap jobs, I can say that I still think 65K is too low for an A320 capt. I can see it for 1st or 2nd year FO, but a CAPTAIN of an A320???? Too low!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What does an FO make?

But they aren't A320s, they are A319s. That makes it okay.....

 

[Fly4hire]

If you all manage to get all Skybus pilots blackballed at all worthwhile carriers, you may think you are hurting the Skybus pilots, in reality you are handing their management the club they will bludgeon you with. A captive pilot group is a managements wet dream.

I can see your logic, however the business model, if successful, will do far more damage to the pilot groups throughout the industry long before the pilots organize or demand better pay and benefits.

JB has still not organized or gotten substantially better wages - they have simply lowered the bar for the rest of the industry and now crow proudly about how they get paid as much or more than the legacy pilots their company helped lower the bar on. If anything the LCC pilots are more arrogant now than before in rationalizing their previous actions.

No, the strategic move is to do everything possible to make the Skybus business model inviable. Crew shortages and difficulty getting your pilots to work is part of that strategy. It's not about the pilots, but they are combatant's for an enemy corporation that wants to profit on at your expense. They are not getting a free ride to work to accomplish that goal.

 

[J and E's Daddy]

Cheap airfare with the high prices of fuel today simply will not work. When I was at Independence, our planes were going out full and still losing money. Besides, no matter how inexpensive they may be, people eventually become pissed off at being nickled and dimed to death. They don't even have connections, you have to get your luggage and go back out to the ticket counter and purchase another ticket, then pay for your luggage to be checked in, and of course as always with walk up tickets, you're subject to the humiliating strip searches at the security checkpoints.
We'll see how long it'll last.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

You love to rag on Delta, but you never get it right. Delta really doesn't care about flights from Columbis since CVG doesn't really have any O&D traffic, and is mainly a hub and spoke type airport.
Bye Bye--General Lee

Your international flights are in good shape. Hub to hub flying is safe. I'm talking about a few of the other routes. Many served by RJs.

Are you telling me all those cars in the long term lot are owned by employees and vendors??

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Cheap airfare with the high prices of fuel today simply will not work. When I was at Independence, our planes were going out full and still losing money. Besides, no matter how inexpensive they may be, people eventually become pissed off at being nickled and dimed to death. They don't even have connections, you have to get your luggage and go back out to the ticket counter and purchase another ticket, then pay for your luggage to be checked in, and of course as always with walk up tickets, you're subject to the humiliating strip searches at the security checkpoints.
We'll see how long it'll last.

50 seaters vs. 120+ seaters???

With maintenance, customer service and employee costs similar, the economics didn't make sense with RJ's.

If you had operated an all 319 fleet it may have been different.

Timing is everthing. I can't tell if this is a good time. Fare hikes have stuck the last couple of years but have recently failed to stick. Legacies have been able to secure profits in some recent quarters. Independence started at a collosally bad time.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Ryan air is doing well, but Europe and the US are totally different markets!
Europe is FULL of kids and gipsy's (my Borat coming out) who will fly them for next to nothing...we in the U.S at least want a coke.

We are looking more and more like Europe every year.

Higher home prices.

Losses of higher paying manufactoring and even white collar jobs.

Higher gas prices.

And just wait...Higher taxes are coming.


Goodbye Gen X....Hello GenGypsy

 

[J and E's Daddy]

We are looking more and more like Europe every year.

Higher home prices.

Losses of higher paying manufactoring and even white collar jobs.

Higher gas prices.

And just wait...Higher taxes are coming.


Goodbye Gen X....Hello GenGypsy

You forgot, Good-Bye Middle Class America

 

[SNOWBUM]

We are looking more and more like Europe every year.

Higher home prices.

Losses of higher paying manufactoring and even white collar jobs.

Higher gas prices.

And just wait...Higher taxes are coming.


Goodbye Gen X....Hello GenGypsy

don't forget free healthcare ( yes you can still buy insurance for your family for $50 a month for non-emergency procedures to avoid any waiting, is not canadian welfare medicine, is socialized, different system), almost free college education( $1,500 year including books and lab fees unless you are poor, in wich cse is totally free), 4 weeks paid vacation, 12 aditional paid hollydays, fully funded pension plans so you don't need to fund your own retirement unless you want too and transportation unions that are not handcuffed by an anti-constitutional RLA.

Add the premiums of your health insurance, your 401k contribution, your college loans and college fund for your kids ( if you have) as a percentage of your income to your marginal tax rate and you will see how you are paying more in hidden taxes than you think, then substract the 12 paid hollydays and 2 weeks vacation from your total income, then compae to pay rates of pilots in europe. I say plese let us came closer to europe please.

 

[Slim]

I'll date myself by asking this...

Does anyone here remember People Express?

Skybus seems to have adopted much of the failed People Express model and added the retail sales twist. I don't see this carrier lasting too long.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it!

Fly safe!

 

[SNOWBUM]

wasn't jet blue the next PX?

 

[wrgcareer]

I can't believe anyone would agree to an Airbus capt. position for $65k. The crack in the dam just got a lot bigger. I can't find another career fast enough.

 

[General Lee]

Your international flights are in good shape. Hub to hub flying is safe. I'm talking about a few of the other routes. Many served by RJs.

Are you telling me all those cars in the long term lot are owned by employees and vendors??

We own the busiest hub in the world (70% of the people flying thru ATL are on DL). In the World, again for you. Our other hubs do well too, and CVG, which you mentioned, is not an O&D type of city. (just like CMH) Do you go to Columbus for fun on the weekends with the wife (for other things than an OSU game)? Didn't think so.

As far as domestic routes with RJs, we are trying to fix that currently. We are replacing 50 seat RJs with 76 seat RJs with 12 first class seats, to hopefully keep some of our better passengers with some sort of an upgrade. We are also looking at getting more domestic mainline planes ASAP, and I can't really share any of that since it is still in the rumor stage, albeit a good rumor. Our new management conceeds that we have too many RJs, and that will hopefully be rectified sooner rather than later.


Bye Bye--General Lee