Bottom-Feeders

[Typhoon1244]

Now for the rest of you broken-record dorks who had to go through the same, tired, "bottom-feeder" refrain...

...I've Jumpseated a couple dozen times on ASA and Comair, including 5 or so in the cockpit. I've received nothing but professional, courteous treatment from all your crews. So what's the deal? Am I really only running into the 1% of guys who don't know enough to hate me for dragging down the industry?

We generally try to wait until you've walked away to make rude comments about your mother and stick pins in our Cha-voodoo-qua dolls.

But seriously, folks...it's easy to loathe Chataqua's management, and it's easy to blame Chataqua's pilot group for the ills of the "small jet" industry. It's very difficult, however, to focus all those emotions on one poor guy who just wants a ride home. I remember meeting a pilot whose uniform I didn't recognize. When I asked him who he was with, he put on a self-conscious look, leaned in close, and whispered, "Mesa."

Pretty funny...but once I got talking to the guy, guess what I discovered. He wasn't a bottom feeder, he was a human being...who happens to work for a guy who makes Frank Lorenzo look like Mother Theresa. What right do I have to insult this guy or call him names?

So given the current situation, what should these "bottom feeders" do about their salaries? Resign in protest? For every one of them--us--there are a hundred want-to-be's in Daytona, Vero Beach, Prescott, Norman, etc., who would do the job for less, just to get into the cockpit of a jet. As long as there are people who love to fly, there will be businessmen waiting to take advantage of them.

Remember, Chataqua's pilots are not telling Delta to give them ASA/Comair routes any more than we're telling Delta to give us mainline routes. Those decisions are out of our hands, so let's quit blaming fellow pilots for our troubles.

 

[Weasel Keeper]

Nice post Typhoon. It would be easy for even us...the red headed forgotten step child of Chautauqua to loath them, but you don't become the #1 regional in the world for no reason and still have happy folks working there. 1st class gang there!


*Hey CHQ, remember those Saabs we took off your hands? Can we have your old jets yet?*

 

[Caveman]

Besides, where has all this pi$$ing and moaning got us so far? Nowhere. It hasn't changed one contract that I know of. I gave a ride to a CHQ pilot just the other day. I welcomed him aboard, asked him if he had a good Xmas, and asked him to backup my F/A if she needed help. Throwing some cheap shot about bringing down the industry would have been rude, counterproductive and cowardly knowing that the guy probably couldn't respond without jeopardizing his ride. Same thing with the major freightdogs that still can't reciprocate (3+ years and counting). Don't get me started on that one. They also get a warm welcome and a no hassle lift home.

It's fine to suggest that another company could do better by it's pilots and the pilots could have negotiated more. It's an entirely different matter to personalize it and childishly attempt to rebuke an individual just trying to pay the bills and maybe hitch a ride home.

 

[I.P. Freley]

*Hey CHQ, remember those Saabs we took off your hands? Can we have your old jets yet?*

Only if we can take out a row of seats first, of course.

 

[Bart Simpson]

I saw the title 'Bottomfeeders' and just knew that CHQ would be mentioned in here. You guys are so predictable.
lol

 

[generaltso]

I have always wondering why CHQ are considered bottom feeders.

If you compare pay rates and work rules, is $2-$4 an hour difference from airline to airline really that big of a deal? We have a decent contract with decent work rules. It's not Comair (no one is right now), it is not Mesa.

I think people call us bottom feeders because maybe our company is better managed then other regionals? People always say we are stealing other's flying because our pilot rates are low. Pilot rates are a small part of the picture. USair pilot rates are below Southwest, USair makes no money, SWA makes tons. We have aggressive management that will do their job - MAKE MONEY FOR THE COMPANY.

Maybe, if our company was poorly managed, we wouldn't be such a "bottom feeder".

 

[SkylerS]

I have always wondering why CHQ are considered bottom feeders.

If you compare pay rates and work rules, is $2-$4 an hour difference from airline to airline really that big of a deal? We have a decent contract with decent work rules. It's not Comair (no one is right now), it is not Mesa.

Two to four dollars per hour less than everyone (perhaps) but Comair. You were suppose to at least get close, you aren't. Sweet Jesus, look at the FO rates. I make $7 per hour more than your five-year FO. That's close to $7,000 per year or $583 per month. That's a lot of money!!! Think of what can be funded with that. A new home, a car, retirement, or a child's education. But no, you sold out the FO for that CA slot. Well guess what, you won't grow forever, just as we're finding out.

A quick glance over the CA rates shows $9-$12 difference in the 70-seat and a $5-$10 difference in the 40/50 seat range. Guys, that's a lot of money especially if you apply it to a retirement account or other savings.

Ok, you said you accepted this contract because of Republic. I certainly hope you have no problems getting Comair (or whomever) + the next time around. No excuses!

Oh, and as for the changing economy and 9/11, it's funny how Comair pilots didn't lower the bar with a "concessions-for-growth" opportunity last year (or was it 2003). We won't be bullied by management.

--Sky

 

[Caveman]

"Pilot rates are a small part of the picture."

Then why did you guys sell out your FO's? $34 an hour max pay and you have to be on 4th year pay to get that! BTW, it isn't 2-4 bucks an hour. Your 2nd year FO makes $29. A 2nd year CMR FO gets $37. That's $8 an hour difference and it equates to you working for 27.5% less than the CMR FO. If you compare 70 seat rates it's a $12 an hour difference, or 41% less!

 

[Typhoon1244]

I think people call us bottom feeders because maybe our company is better managed then other regionals? Maybe, if our company was poorly managed, we wouldn't be such a "bottom feeder".

Better managed? Are you kidding?

You know, I started this thread defending you guys...and this is what I get.

Screw you, generaltso.

 

[Av8tor1]

"Sweet Jesus, look at the FO rates. I make $7 per hour more than your five-year FO. That's close to $7,000 per year or $583 per month"



We have no 5 year FOs and Chautauqua. They're captains in 18 months.

 

[Caveman]

"We have no 5 year FOs and Chautauqua. They're captains in 18 months."

Yep, and they get a whopping $12 an hour more than a CMR 2nd year CRJ50 FO.

 

[rightrudder]

"Sweet Jesus, look at the FO rates. I make $7 per hour more than your five-year FO. That's close to $7,000 per year or $583 per month"



We have no 5 year FOs and Chautauqua. They're captains in 18 months.

You will once your deliveries stop. You can't keep on growing forever. Believe me, it will come to an end.

 

[generaltso]

Your right about growth, everyones growth will come to an end at some point. Just ask pilots at Comair and Air Wisconsin.

I have a lot of respect for Comair pilots, especially those involved in the strike. If all the pilot groups were willing to do what those guys did, everyone regional pilot would be doing much better.

However, I do believe that achieving Comair + anything would have been tough for any regional post 9/11.

I think it basically boils down to growth vs. pay. Which would you have? Sacrifice pay and have your company grow, or sacrifice growth but get better pay? Every pilot has his/her own opinion on which is better. Comair has great pay and poor growth. CHQ has average pay and above average growth.

 

[KingAirer]

You really should talk of CHQ growth in the past tense. CHQ HAD growth. There are a couple more UAL planes, and the 16 DL jets over two years! Thats not much. Plus who knows what happens with the USAirways Jets. Dont get to cocky, things rotate around and it will be CHQ who is stagnant before long.

 

[TWAER]

You guys really need to get a CLUE!! Why is nobody talking about the new NON-UNION airline that will start service in Aug. run by Trans States??? If you think CHQ is a bottom feeder, wait till you see the 70 seat rates for this first class operation.

OHHHHHHHH, Now I know why.... They are going to fly for United, not Delta, so you don't give a crap. HMMMMMMM, how long before they get a Delta code share? You Comair guys might want to watch this one closely. I know I am.

 

[front9]

I thought this was a Mesa bashing thread?

 

[Corbon]

Geez..Typhoon starts a thread in our defense and we respond by giving him a reason to reconsider doing it? Nice. I've run into a lot of Comair pilots around CVG, had many of them in the jumpseat and in the back as non-revs, and have only experienced professionalism, no matter what they actually thought of Chautauqua. I realize the frustrations of CMR and ASA but I, like many, took the first regional job I could get and that happened to be Chautuaqua. Had things gone differently I could be anywhere else. But I'm here. Outside of the common frustrations everybody in the airlines shares once in awhile, I'm very satisfied and I'm sure the majority of our pilots would say the same thing.
So thanks for the post Typhoon, I hope if you've ridden on us we've treated you equally as well as I've been treated by your crews.

 

[Typhoon1244]

So thanks for the post Typhoon, I hope if you've ridden on us we've treated you equally as well as I've been treated by your crews.

You're welcome. I haven't had the pleasure of riding on Chataqua yet, but I've had several of your pilots hitch rides with us. Imagine my surprise that none of them had forked tongues and lazy eyes...

Seriously, though, the CHQ and Mesa guys I've met have been nothing but courteous and professional. In seven years, I've only had two jumpseaters who--given the choice--I wouldn't let back on my airplane. One was a National 757 captain who (due in part to his unfamiliarity with the CRJ) questioned my judgement as PIC in front of passengers...not smart. The other was one of our own CRJ-700 F/O's who waited until we were already at cruise to reveal the fact that he's a prick.

But I digress...

Yes, you "bottom-feeders," you're welcome on my airplane anytime...except for generaltso. (I wonder what he looks like...)

 

[Corbon]

Imagine my surprise that none of them had forked tongues and lazy eyes...

Oh we have em' here. We usually refer to them as flight attendants.

Edited to add a smiley in case any of our wonderful FA's know who I am.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

Funny how I flew 402s to the bahamas and was told i was flying bottom feeding airplanes to the bahamas only to discover i work for chq now and being called a bottom feeder once again.

i do say the 170 is a much better bottom feeding airplane than the cessna 402 but only a little better (sarcasm)

Later!

 

[FlyChicaga]

I'm starting to believe that flying a 402 around the islands of the Bahamas would be much more desireable than a life in the regionals. Not because of the flying, or the pay... but rather the attitudes you'd be surrounded with. How depressing to see everyone bitching at one another. Two of my good friends are at CHQ right now and I don't hate them at all, or think they are bottom feeders. Even with the fact their company is trying to undercut us at ExpressJet (so I hear).

Absolutely amazing. Management really has us by the balls, huh? Not only are we racing for the bottom in pay and benefits, we are fighting each other at the same time. Brotherhood my ass.

 

[generaltso]

Yes, you "bottom-feeders," you're welcome on my airplane anytime...except for generaltso. (I wonder what he looks like...)

You start a thread to show your support toward CHQ pilots and you call the thread "bottom-feeders", like we are somehow beneath you. Well thanks for taking pity on us and letting us on your jumpseat.

 

[Typhoon1244]

You start a thread to show your support toward CHQ pilots and you call the thread "bottom-feeders", like we are somehow beneath you.

Ahem.

Now for the rest of you broken-record dorks who had to go through the same, tired, "bottom-feeder" refrain...

The title of this thread refers to the tired refrain, and came from a post by one of your pilots! I think everybody else understood that. And yes, when I said "all you 'bottom-feeders,'" I was being ironic. Sorry if that went over your head too. I'll dumb it down next time.

...thanks for taking pity on us...

Pity? I don't think that's quite the right word, but I take exception when a group of people is so widely and undeservedly reviled. CHQ's management team are among the whores of the industry, and you pilots too often are the focus of animosity because of it. I don't like that, and that was the point of this thread.

Now, did you understand that?

(Creep...)

 

[Typhoon1244]

Comair sucks (I'm sure the general public would agree)

You're right...basically because the general public has that opinion of all airlines.

(Warning: flame-baiters don't last long around here.)

 

[Corbon]

Sometimes the bottem is better. Like when I'm tired and just want to get it over with.

 

[flyinloki]

Why can't we all just love and fly around happily

The fact is every management team is going to try to jip the pilots because they are buisnessmen. The buisnessman only cares for his pay and how much the airline makes. The pilots are just his puppets. So we should all just get along and try to help each other. The more we can stick together the more we could accomplish but that will never happen in the airline industry i guess. Can't we all just LOVE. Jesh. This is depressing stuff.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Sometimes the bottem is better. Like when I'm tired and just want to get it over with.

LMAO