Bombardier to sell 120 planes to NETJETS???

[G4dude]

The only way concessions would save jobs is if the company actually needed those pilots to fly. And cost cutting allowed the product to maintain or increase market share.

Look. Fuel costs @ $6/gallon is $2000/ hour to run a X or a Falcon. Thats fuel alone then management fees.... We are a relatively small cost per hour especily when you are talking 10% of our pay as mentioned previously. A 10% pilot pay cut is not affecting our ability to maintain pilot jobs through market share.

Good post, but since NJA furloughed 495 pilots, it must have been significant. Although, upon reflection, if we didn't need them any more, then it did not matter how significant the cost was, because the pilots were redundant. So I see your point.

 

[gunfyter]

Good post, but since NJA furloughed 495 pilots, it must have been significant. Although, upon reflection, if we didn't need them any more, then it did not matter how significant the cost was, because the pilots were redundant. So I see your point.

Yes G4. It didn't matter. It mattered to RTS... and we did have a voluntary measures program ... but after he left, it no longer mattered.

You have good instincts. Wiling to sacrifice yourself for your brothers. I commend you although I know you do not need any commendation from me.

 

[G4dude]

Yes G4. It didn't matter. It mattered to RTS... and we did have a voluntary measures program ... but after he left, it no longer mattered.

You have good instincts. Wiling to sacrifice yourself for your brothers. I commend you although I know you do not need any commendation from me.

Actually, commendation feels good right about now, as I get snarled at by the more intense union guys about supposedly not caring.

 

[gunfyter]

Actually, commendation feels good right about now, as I get snarled at by the more intense union guys about supposedly not caring.

Sorry about that. Some people act out of emotion. I don't dislike people just because I disagree with them. Like on these boards, disagree and argue with many people. The only one I can think of I might possibly dislike is 19. Not because he disagrees with me ... but because I believe he actually wants to hurt us. Maybe I am wrong about that. Maybe he is from the government and is here to help us?

 

[G4dude]

Sorry about that. Some people act out of emotion. I don't dislike people just because I disagree with them. Like on these boards, disagree and argue with many people. The only one I can think of I might possibly dislike is 19. Not because he disagrees with me ... but because I believe he actually wants to hurt us. Maybe I am wrong about that. Maybe he is from the government and is here to help us?

I suspect B19 is a capitalist radical like me, that's all. We all care about the same things and the same pilots, just have different beliefs about how to fix them.

 

[gunfyter]

Nothing more Capitalist than a Union.

A Cartel of labor.

That is unless you believe Capitalists like Free markets and PRICE COMPETITION. :laugh:

 

[G4dude]

Nothing more Capitalist than a Union.

A Cartel of labor.

That is unless you believe Capitalists like Free markets and PRICE COMPETITION. :laugh:

I like free markets (and competition therein) because it things forces companies to behave better than if they would otherwise. Or risk losing their customers and best employees to another company. I consider unions a destructive coercive force rendered unnecessary by a fully developed free market. In my opinion, unions served a somewhat positive purpose in the early days of the industrial revolution, maybe, but not now. Nothing I would love better than a good old academic discussion about the virtues of the Free Market, hee hee. Cheers!

 

[gunfyter]

Capitalists don't like Free market PRICE COMPETITION... they like Cartels, monopolies, Price Setting, collusion etc..

And conspiracies to keep labor costs low .... like the ATA lobbying to block important safety regulations regarding Crew Rest an Duty, Fatigue.

You (and so can the 121 airlines) can thank the Netjets Pilots union (and specifically GIV Captain Tom G) for your Prospective Rest rules and its enforcement. So it wasn't just in the early days of industrialization that unions were positive and necessary. Air Carriers are trying to cut corners all the time. We MUST stop them!

And what could be more immoral than Training Contracts and PFT? ooops I know ... Pilot Salaries at the Regional airlines.

 

[gret]

Capitalists don't like Free market PRICE COMPETITION... they like Cartels, monopolies, Price Setting, collusion etc..

Definition of CAPITALISM

: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

 

[Pervis]

G4, you had the luxury of the favored employee status, and from your perspective, I can see your point regarding the necessity or not of unions. This is not meant as a hit on you, but rather a simple insight from a different perspective.

When I started at EJA, SIC pay was 27k, and upgrade in 6 months brought me to a whopping 37k. At the time we were told EJI starting salary was 68-72k, and no one would disclose Capt pay. We were told it was negotiated individually, all within a certain range. As a 5 year PIC I was barely making 75k on the flex schedule.

Clearly a significant difference, and it continues today, in spite of the integration, due to the continued favored status right up till the integration with mass upgrades. That was our fault as a group for not considering that possibility and negotiating a better deal for all.

There are a lot of SICs senior to PICs in the big Gs, and over time the salary difference is in the hundreds of thousands. Every single pilot from the "A" side will have far lower earnings since date of hire and will never see parity. Only new hires post integration will see true parity. That's fine, as future agreements would have to show favored status to one group, the former "A" side, which the union will not promote. That's one big advantage of unions today-eliminating favoritism. Some say it also offers protections for those that should be terminated, but how is that different from a non-union shop where favorites of managers remain and should be teminated?

There are many other advantages you will learn of and come to appreciate. The recent loss of medical insurance provides a base 1000/month till age 65 compliments of the union, with more available at a reasonable cost to us. Work rules that take the threat of termination away when issues such as mx and fatigue crop up. Protections from loss of benefits, recall rights, and lots more.

I believe this union is unique as well. All of us realize the importance of providing the best product we can to our owners, and will not attempt to cripple the company as other unions have done. In protecting the pilots, we also protect our owners and the Netjets name. Our goals are the same as management's, although we seem more interested in achieving them than they are of late.

PS: Don't worry about the few on the other board. Discussions like this may result in some verbal harrassment from a very small minority, but you'll find the majority will back you up.