Bombardier Flexjet

[bafanguy]

I see on aviationcareers.com that Bombardier Flexjet is advertising for pilots...FO's, that is. They appear to have a few benefits to go with the job, but the pay setup is confusing. Maybe all the frax are like this: $153.64 per 12 hour duty period...some overtime provisions can increase this ?? They say 17-18 duty days a month, so this is $2765/mo ? And you have to move to within 1.5 hours of one of their hub airports ?

Is this outfit considered a good place to work ? They have not advertised for pilots in quite a while as far as I know. Are they a good place to work ? How do they compare to the other frax ?

 

[jobear]

I was wondering the same thing, I sent in a resume in Jan and I guess everyone else there quit because they tried to get in touch with me last week.

Anyone have gouge on em? I upgrade on the DO-328 next month unless DAL tanks....... Oh I shoulda stayed in a firefighter

Jobear

 

[Just Peachy]

Fricken' Flexjeter.......

Ya wanna look at the pay vs work closely. They operate on a 28 day month. So If you work 18 days ya get 10 off to round out the "FlexJet month" That gets the company 20 or so extra work days a year... I worked there 5 years and ran into one of my buds last week. Hes pretty high up in Sr. ( single digits) and said the company had planes parked all over because of "not enough crews to man them", and everyone was getting hammered.

It used to be when you were assigned a plane, you stayed with it no matter what. Now, scheduling airlines you to your next one if you have a prob, which is want we do here at Nutjets... lotsa airlineing.

He also said a lot of applicants were haveing a tough time passing the sim ride as they "cant fly".... hmmm

You might do better at Citation Shares...........

 

[gordon24]

I interviewed with them back in May. Funny, the sim was pretty easy. T/O climb to 5000, turn toward VOR. Given a hold, state entry, if correct-no hold. Vectors back to ILS. Land, start back on runway, V1 cut to 1500, done. No tech questions, just a few get to know you. 50 ques. ATP test...simple stuff. Very nice folks. Head H.R. lady, Karen, would let you know how you did during each step and was asking me what class date I would want before I even flew the sim. Got the phone call for the job before I left the parking lot. Turned them down for the reason stated in previous post. PBS schedule with little say in what you get. PM with any questions.

 

[MovingTarget]

Flex

From the "Don't say anything if you don't have anything nice to say" department:

I've been at Flex for a long time. I chose the job for the following three reasons:
1. Scheduled days off.
2. Excellent equipment.
3. Good and regular maintenance.

These three things have kept me here and I've been pleasantly suprised at a fourth. The crews at Flex are a great group of guys. Hard-working, professional and a blast to hang out with. A gentleman that has since left Flex said it best: "From the time you throw the start switch to the time you shut down the throttles, this is the best job I've ever had and the best crews I've ever flown with". That gentleman was retired Air Force and retired American Airlines with over 30 years of professional flight experience. From the positive side of Flex, I agree with him.

As with any jobs, there are downsides. I choose to take the good with the bad. I would recommend meeting with Flexers out on the road and talking to them face-to-face. You'll get a good idea of what you should do.

Good luck.

 

[flexlrpilot357]

Oh, yeah, things are horrible here.

We Flexjet pilots are so oppressed, we're not even allowed to use the Gregorian calendar.

First year FO pay is as you stated. The schedule is divided up by 28 day "months", which equals two pay periods. (Can you believe the audacity?) The "standard" pay is based on 17 days/month, but technically, you can work anything between 14 and 20 days. The average is right around 16. The most I've ever worked in 6+ years is 19, least is 15 and I know plenty of people who've done 14.

The PBS system is very controversial. It is the scheduling software we use for awarding schedules to crewmembers. Search my other posts for details, but essentially, it awards on and off days based on company needs and crewmember seniority. It is a little complicated to use, but the crew scheduling people are very nice and helpful. They will walk you through the process or place your bid for you if you need help. Most PBS complaints boil down to a combination of misundertanding the system and the limitations of the company. i.e., we have a finite number of crewmembers, concrete mins and maximums, and a schedule/demand profile that must be met.

Max days on is 6, min days on is 4. Max used to be 7, but that was unpopular and there was a lot of griping, so one day the MEC chairman sat down with the VP of Operations and they hammered out an agreement... wait a second, that's not what happened! What did happen is one day, based on crewmember feedback, management decided to do away with the 7-day lines. Min days off is 3. There is a reserve line now.

Overtime comes in two flavors: hourly and daily. Hourly is based on your daily rate and starts if you're on duty for more than 12 hours (which happens every day, of course.) Daily overtime is for volunteered non-scheduled work days, and is considerably more than whatever your particular daily rate is.

When you upgrade, you transition to the Captain pay scale at years of service minus one year. i.e. you have 4 years of service, you start your captain pay at 3rd year captain pay. That was also hard-won during intense negotiations.

You can live wherever you want, but you have to be in your domicile (TEB, FLL, DFW, ONT) and available for work on day one.

Flexjet is an excellent place to work. The equipment, crews, benefits, and pay is excellent. The management is also excellent, the assistant chief pilots and the Chief Pilot are all very approachable, swell guys. Scheduling can be a goat-rope sometimes, but it's the same with all the frax.

We are much busier than forecast/budgeted for this Spring/Summer, hence the big hiring push.

This job is really as fun or as horrible as you choose to make it. You can a.) do honest, hard work, give good service, get along with your fellow crewmembers and roll with the occasional disappointment, or you can b.) be miserable and make everyone hate flying with you. I'm happy to say that the majority here choose "a" and this is the best bunch of guys I've ever flown with, in any regard.

Re: Guys not passing the sim eval? What can I say, some people can't do V1 cuts in a jet-powered aircraft. Some guys can't take off, enter a holding pattern, or intercept an ILS without crashing either. That said, lots of people CAN do that stuff... so how unfair could it be?

 

[broken spoke]

Nice

Nicely done, flexlrpilot357. I echo your statement.

Cheers.

 

[Lear70]

As with all things, there are the kool-aid drinkers and the people who will always gripe, and the truth is somewhere in between (althought 357 is a little more neutral than usual - sorry dude, couldn't resist) .

I had an interview a few days ago where I knew they'd be giving Flex a call to verify employment so I called Karen Parr (HR Manager) to chat for a sec. She's always very pleasant to talk with and remembers most everyone and she told me a little bit about what was happening there lately, which is as stated: more flying, more sales, therefore more pilots needed.

On the down-side, upgrades are LOOOOONNNNGGGG ways away, but it's that way at just about every place except some charter operators (who, by the way, have no scheule for the most part), and the pay is just OK, but starting is STILL better than NJA although they top out quite a bit higher and should be higher still once they wrap things up over there (6 months to another year).

I've said it once and I'll say it again: if you're coming from a crappy 135 operator, it's a much better place to be. If you're coming from a legacy carrier position, you're probably not going to like it as much, but it's a paying job flying jets with a schedule, so life could be worse if it's a step back in the flying direction.

Fly safe, and good luck.

 

[Heavy Set]

What are the "best" aircraft to get hired into? I know that Flex is adding a bunch of Challenger 300s and Lear 40/45s. Can newhires still be hired into the 300 and the 604 and is this desireable (beyond just getting the 300/604 type ratings) from a schedule and route variety standpoint (maybe more Europe or Hawaii runs)? What is the likely aircraft assignment for a newhire these days?

I really like the Challenger 300 - looks like a smooth ride...

P.S. Are the Lear 40s selling well?

 

[flexlrpilot357]

New-hires can get hired into any aircraft at Flexjet, though mgmt., due to popular demand, decided to allow FO's to bid for Challenger 300 seats. It's gone suprisingly senior, when you take into consideration the 2-year seat lock that was stipulated with the deal.

New-hires have been put into the CL604 in the past. I've heard it's a great job. FA takes care of the stuff in the back, Captain takes care of the paperwork, the aircraft is nice and comfortable.

Dunno what a likely assignment is... most likely a Lear.

The CL30 (Challenger 300) is great.

Lear 70 - I prefer to think of myself as "fair and balanced".

 

[broken spoke]

New Hire Aircraft

When I was hired, they were placing fellas where they needed them.
This does include the CL604. I was offered the L45 or L60. I chose the L60 and I still do not regret it. One terrific aircraft!! They are not hiring into the 300. That a/c is all done internally. I have found this place a great place to work and fly. Great group of pilots that don't mind working hard when we need to. Yes, there are some negatives, but aren't they everywhere?

Cheers, Ron

 

[Heavy Set]

How long until Captain upgrade? Estimates...

When I was hired, they were placing fellas where they needed them.
This does include the CL604. I was offered the L45 or L60. I chose the L60 and I still do not regret it. One terrific aircraft!! They are not hiring into the 300. That a/c is all done internally. I have found this place a great place to work and fly. Great group of pilots that don't mind working hard when we need to. Yes, there are some negatives, but aren't they everywhere?

Cheers, Ron

What's the upgrade time now? I knew a Lear 60 FO who was trapped in that position for 4-5 years. If you were hired into a Lear 60 as an FO now, would you likely move up to the Lear 40/45 Captain position next or would it depend upon your preference (i.e., wait a long time for a Lear 60 or Challenger 300 Captain slot)? What about the Lear 31 - are you still hiring into that aircraft too?

 

[flexlrpilot357]

We have hired into the Lear 31 lately.

Career progression: First officers are hired into any fleet, are upgraded as Learjet captains (any LR fleet), and eventually transition to the Challenger fleet as a captain.

I believe the most junior captain was hired in Feb 2000.

 

[SELCAL checks]

Quality of life and upgrade time at Flexjet are horrible. Couple years ago we started losing folks to Netjets and Flight Options. Now we are starting to lose guys to regional airlines - and that's a 50% paycut. That's how bad it is for those folks who are in the bottom half of the seniority list.

Must tell ya something.

 

[flexlrpilot357]

Notice how easy to spout invectives without any facts to back them up.

Now we are starting to lose guys to regional airlines

ahhh... doubt that.

Lost guys to Options? You mean the one who got fired?

Quality of life is horrible? What's wrong, you're not getting any? Don't blame Flexjet for that. Oh wait, you're one of the guys who reports for duty at 0401 on day 1, is worked 14 hours every duty day, and gets home at 2359 on their last day every week. Yeah, I've heard about that.

Upgrade times? Well, that's well documented. No big news flash there.

 

[Lear70]

Talked to a friend of mine in HR here at Pinnacle. They get about half a dozen new resumes from Flexjet F/O's every week.

Of course, that's half a dozen resumes of about 100+ total resumes received so it's a small amount, but there are plenty of guys there at Flexjet looking over here thinking two years to upgrade in a CRJ with a biddable schedule of 14-16 days off within 6 months is worth a cut in pay. About 3 years to break even with about half again as many days off.

Kind of makes regional airline life seem not so bad... I know I enjoy it more than I did Flexjet - except for the empty legs - nothing like an empty Learjet to remind you how much fun flying can be sometimes!

 

[OPECJet]

Are you responsible for getting yourself to you domicile, or do they pay to fly you there?