Boeing Unveils Its Jumbo Killer

[dicko]

Hence the "I've never heard of" disclaimer. I know several instances of guys trying to launch with the wings folded.

Link, SIR, hazrep?

11 October 1974. RAF Phantom FGR2. Crashed on takeoff after wing fold mechanism left unlocked. Both crew now own Martin Baker ties.

http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/aircraft_by_type/f-4_phantom_raf.htm

Couple more -

http://luckypuppy.net/i-watched-as-the-phantom-crashed/

 

[jonjuan]

This message brought to you by the Koch Brothers.

This message brought to you by MSNBC.

 

[xjhawk]

SO reading between the lines, I am thinking the Delta order is only going to be for all those ex Navy guys or maybe I am missing something here and you are all hinting that the 777X is the Navy's replacement for the F/A 18?

Baahahahahaha

 

[SIG600]

11 October 1974. RAF Phantom FGR2. Crashed on takeoff after wing fold mechanism left unlocked. Both crew now own Martin Baker ties.

http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/aircraft_by_type/f-4_phantom_raf.htm

Couple more -

http://luckypuppy.net/i-watched-as-the-phantom-crashed/

They were left unlocked, it didn't fail. That's like blaming the gear for landing with the handle up.

 

[dicko]

They were left unlocked, it didn't fail. That's like blaming the gear for landing with the handle up.

I agree. But, it's just one more thing for a human to fail at. When they do, Martin Baker isn't going to have 350 seats in the back to get people out of trouble.

I'm not against the idea of folding wings. However, it does seem to be an obvious point at which a catastrophic event becomes possible. We recently started putting gear pins in as a matter of course. Guess how many of our airplanes fell over during the night prior to gear pins being installed ? Now guess how many have taken off with them installed ? By the way, the airplane doesn't require gear pins to be installed.

 

[8sugarsugar]

the wing fold it to keep the 777 an ICAO category E aircraft so it can still go to all the major airports. 212 feet through 170 feet is Category E. A 380 is Category F.

777X is advertised to have a 233 wingspan. So the last 21 feet would fold up.

Even if the last 21 feet broke off in flight, the remaining 212 feet would undoubtably be enough to maintain control.

 

[JimNtexas]

Hence the "I've never heard of" disclaimer. I know several instances of guys trying to launch with the wings folded.

Link, SIR, hazrep?

Back about 1980 I saw an F-4 take off from George AFB with one wing unlocked.

It did a graceful arc through the sky and crashed right next to the base fuel farm. I saw the crew land on the ramp in front of our squadron building.

The IWSO later became a friend, he was blamed for the accident because the pilot was a student.

In the F-4D/E/G the only way to know that the wing was unlocked was to notice a two inch red tab protruding from the wing fold area.

If both wings are unlocked the F-4 could fly just fine.

Having said that, the F-4 was about as sophisticated as a 1947 Harley Davidson.

I'm real confident that Boeing can make an airplane that will very resistant to takeoff attempts with unlocked wingtips.

I've never flown an airliner, but don't those airplanes have a bunch of flight controls/lift devices/buttons/switches/lights on/lights off that all have to be correct before they can safely takeoff?

My impression is that it's just part of the airline pilots job to correctly configuration the airplane before they depart. And they generally do a good job at that.

 

[SIG600]

Agree dicko. I've never understood the practice of gear pins. Seen more planes take off with them in and return, than planes that have spontaneously folded their gear on the ground.

 

[bri5150]

Right, but take off with them in and you've burned some gas. Have the gear fold on the ground and its a bit more than gas.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Right, but take off with them in and you've burned some gas. Have the gear fold on the ground and its a bit more than gas.

I have never heard about a single instance of the gear on a Boeing spontaneously collapsing while parked. Anybody else heard of this? The gear are locked down by over center pressure with the weight of the plane on it. Not sure how it would be possible.

In the military, they call those gear pins "maintenance pins," and they're only put in when maintenance is being done, and part of the aircraft must be jacked or lifted. I've been told that Boeing also refers to them as "maintenance pins."

Bubba

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Sadly Boeing has a yoke. Sadly AB has a stick that moves a-synchronously with the control surfaces of the aircraft and a-synchronously with the other stick. Both companies have engineers that are F-ing idiots. An eighth grader could combine the good points of both... But at least Holder and Obama could never get hired to design an airplane.

A Monkey SCREWING a Football would do a better job than Barry! I'll take the Tea Party (who is FOR the Constitution and our Rights) versus Barry and his new Third Reich!

Since airplanes don't have a uterus and vagina, republicans would be too far from their area of expertise to be effective.

 

[tzskipper]

I have never heard about a single instance of the gear on a Boeing spontaneously collapsing while parked. Anybody else heard of this? The gear are locked down by over center pressure with the weight of the plane on it. Not sure how it would be possible.

In the military, they call those gear pins "maintenance pins," and they're only put in when maintenance is being done, and part of the aircraft must be jacked or lifted. I've been told that Boeing also refers to them as "maintenance pins."

Bubba

Fwiw;

http://www.nycaviation.com/2013/08/...67-300-collapsed-at-gate-at-iah/#.Um7Nlhgijmk

 

[8sugarsugar]

the wing fold is to keep the 777 an ICAO category E aircraft so it can still go to all the major airports. 212 feet through 170 feet is Category E. A 380 is Category F.

777X is advertised to have a 233 wingspan. So the last 21 feet would fold up.

Even if the last 21 feet broke off in flight, the remaining 212 feet would undoubtably be enough to maintain control.

correction, 10.5 feet on each side would fold up.

 

[MECH]

I agree. But, it's just one more thing for a human to fail at. When they do, Martin Baker isn't going to have 350 seats in the back to get people out of trouble.

I'm not against the idea of folding wings. However, it does seem to be an obvious point at which a catastrophic event becomes possible. We recently started putting gear pins in as a matter of course. Guess how many of our airplanes fell over during the night prior to gear pins being installed ? Now guess how many have taken off with them installed ? By the way, the airplane doesn't require gear pins to be installed.

As Continental and Northwest proved trying to take off fly with their flaps up. It does not work. So maybe we should use your theory. That it is to dangerous to operate a commercial aircraft with any flaps or slats which need to be moved into a TO position.

Or we could the monitor the locks with the take off config warning. Which so far has prevented a repeat of the accidents mentioned above.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Or we could the monitor the locks with the take off config warning. Which so far has prevented a repeat of the accidents mentioned above.

There were T/O config warnings installed in both those cases you mentioned. Some very smart guy will find the way to do something really dumb outside the box.......!