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Boeing KC-767 update

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MercuryPilot

Go NAVY! Beat Army!
Joined
Nov 17, 2002
Posts
117
Boeing deal with Pentagon worth $16 bil.

May 24, 2003

BY LYNN SWEET Sun-Times Washington Bureau Chief

WASHINGTON--After last-minute haggling cut the price 12.5 percent, the Pentagon announced Friday a controversial $16 billion tentative deal for the Air Force to lease airborne refueling planes from Boeing.

The pending leases for Chicago-based Boeing were deplored by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) as "favoritism to a single defense contractor'' because, he said, it would be cheaper to buy new planes or modernize the aging fleet of KC-135 tankers.

Boeing had considerable political muscle behind its bid, with House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) its central champion. Hastert brought up the Boeing leases multiple times in conversations with the president, vice president and defense secretary, his staffers said.

White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card called Hastert near 7 p.m. Thursday to tell him that the White House was signing off on the lease plan, said Hastert spokesman John Feehery.

The anticipated agreement provides for leasing 100 KC-767 aircraft from Boeing for six years, with the first planes delivered in 2006.

The lease price is $131 million per plane, with an additional $7 million for financing costs.

The deal may amount to less than $16 billion, depending on costs, the Defense Department said. The Air Force could buy the planes for $4 billion when the lease ends in 2017.

At present, the Air Force has 544 of the KC-135 tankers, bought from Boeing between 1957 and 1962. The tentative deal covers the lease of 100 commercial Boeing 767s to be built in Everett, Wash., then flown to Wichita, Kan., for modifications to make them combat refueling tankers. In Defense Department jargon, the "K" designates a tanker and the "C" marks a cargo plane.

Boeing agreed to a lower price for the leases at the insistence of the White House Office of Management and Budget and after the Pentagon changed some specifications and dangled a sweetener for the company, the prospect that it may eventually build and lease more than the 100 planes that will be ordered.

"This could easily grow beyond the current number,'' Philip M. Condit, Boeing's chairman and chief executive officer, said in an interview with the Chicago Sun-Times. "So in that sense, it is an extremely important contract."

"The speaker played an extraordinarily powerful role," Condit said. "He understood the importance of getting new tankers into the inventory."

Boeing landed on Hastert's radar after the company moved its world headquarters from Seattle to Chicago in 2001.

"The first order of business is, is this the right thing for the country?" Condit said. "I think the second piece clearly is, he is supporting a company that is there in Chicago, and I think that is important as well."

Citizens Against Government Waste, a taxpayer watchdog group, said in a statement that the Pentagon caved in to political pressure by approving the deal it calculated to be worth $21 billion, instead of refurbishing the existing fleet.

McCain said "every analysis has shown that it would be considerably less expensive to either modernize our existing tanker fleet or purchase new tankers. The only reason to lease new tankers is that they are more, not less, expensive and, thus, a greater windfall to the Boeing Co."

Negotiations over the tanker leases have dragged on for 20 months.

Triggering the debate was the passage by Congress, with a boost from Hastert, of legislation specifying that new tankers would be leased, not purchased, and would be manufactured by Boeing.

The negotiations started to conclude 2-1/2 weeks ago when the Air Force and Boeing shook hands on a deal with a base price of $146.5 million per plane.

The Office of Management and Budget said that price was too high and Boeing dropped to $134 million.

The budget office insisted on yet another price cut and the final price went down to $131 million, with the understanding that Boeing may get more than the original 100 orders.

"We're not going to stop at 100,'' said Undersecretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics Edward C. "Pete" Aldridge on Friday.

Boeing's profit is supposed to be capped at 15 percent of the deal. Boeing is forming another company to actually own and lease the planes, which officials called a nonprofit trust.

Boeing stock closed at $29.99, up 89 cents.
 
This is such a ruse!

My last assignment was doing functional check flights (FCF's) on Pacer CRAG modified -135's and as such, had close contact with the -135 engineers and project managers at Tinker AFB. Without exception, they all agreed that the current fleet has at least another 20 years of life, that corrosion is a problem but one that is manageable, and that the 767-200 as proposed would not be able to carry the same amount of fuel over the longest distance that the -135 can (however, the aircraft are rarely flown fully loaded at max range so that last point is more a bragging right). The -135 is one of the most reliable aircraft in the AF, although I imagine spare parts will become more scarce in the years ahead. So, basically the AF could buy fewer of the 76's as the existing -135's could last as long as it would take to more slowly buy 100 new tankers than lease all at once at a higher amortized cost. But this wouldn't be the first time the military-industrial complex influences a less than optimum decision. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to fly a 767 tanker in a few years but before 9/11, the AF placed a new tanker pretty low on its need list and all of a sudden it has changed its mind. HMMMMM.....
 
Just a dumb fighter guy wondering here, but...

Aren't they only talking about replacement of the E-model fleet with this lease, though?

While the points about Pacer CRAG 135s are, I'm sure, true...are those depot engineers talking about Es or Rs and Ts?
 
you're correct

The engineers WERE speaking of the R & T models and yes, it's been about a year, but there was the plan floating around that the 767's would go to active units, who would give their R's to E model equipped Guard/Reserve units. I'm not saying the 767 would not make a good tanker, but the fact remains that, after several studies over the last decade, there was very little importance put upon replacing the -135 before 9/11 and Boeing's misfortunes...
 
We can all thank Mrs. Tom Daschel (Linda Hall Daschle,
Boeing lobbyist) for this great deal.

This is almost as good as the AF retiring out all A-10s by 2004 for a couple of big $$ F-22s that we don't need. I sure will enjoy seeing those F-16s under 10,000 ft in their new CAS role.

I guess we can always hope the Army will still get a shot at taking over the A-10 and AC-130 gunship program.
 
DaveGriffin said:
We can all thank Mrs. Tom Daschel (Linda Hall Daschle,
Boeing lobbyist) for this great deal.


Let's see... The Republicans control the House, the Senate, and the White House, but the wife of a Democrat has enough influence to ram through a $16 billion spending bill? Are you sure its not Bill Clinton's fault?
Maybe the fact that the Speaker of the House and Boeing are both based in Chicago had a little to do with it. Hastert was on record as a big supporter of this purchase.
 
I guess we can always hope the Army will still get a shot at taking over the A-10 and AC-130 gunship program.

Long overdue!

Minh
(Formerly Protected By Same)
 
Singlecoil said:
Let's see... The Republicans control the House, the Senate, and the White House, but the wife of a Democrat has enough influence to ram through a $16 billion spending bill? Are you sure its not Bill Clinton's fault?
Maybe the fact that the Speaker of the House and Boeing are both based in Chicago had a little to do with it. Hastert was on record as a big supporter of this purchase.

Until 2004 it will be very close on contested issues. The Republicans can't get anything through without some support from the Dems. Just look at the Tax Cut...with the 3 GOP defectors it took some Dem cross-overs and the VP to break the tie.

In any event Ms. Daschel is the wheel greaser; $$ talks and BS walks. Hastert pimped us on this one.
 
Singlecoil said:
Let's see... The Republicans control the House, the Senate, and the White House, but the wife of a Democrat has enough influence to ram through a $16 billion spending bill?

Uhh, you might want to read that constitution again... it takes 60 votes to "control" the senate. One senator can hold the hold the entire senate hostage until 60 others decide its time for him to shut up.
 
Spur said:
Uhh, you might want to read that constitution again... it takes 60 votes to "control" the senate. One senator can hold the hold the entire senate hostage until 60 others decide its time for him to shut up.

Could you give a reference on where in the Constitution this is found?
 

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