"Blue Ridge" pilots...

[chperplt]

Why would ATC yell at you for rolling across the line prior to there roll?

I don't know.. but he did

 

[sky37d]

On sunday, I was over to mdw, and was final for 22R. There's a Citation sitting there. Waiting for something. I was right there, I mean Right There, when he started rolling. I was over the fence and before he started to lift the nose. I think it was legal, because his wheels were off the ground, mostly, when mine touched. However, it was an uncomfortable situation. When I told tower, the first time, there's an AC sitting there, he said, no problem, he'll be gone before you get there, and he was, but I didn't like it one bit.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

hey sky37, how much distance between you and the citation.

for a CAT3 aircraft which would be the citation and i dont know what you were in but it doesn't matter when a CAt3 is involved, runways seperation is 6000ft and off the ground. At mdw I doubt you had the 6000ft due to the short runways. Sounds like the controller lost his seperation and played it off like no big deal. That doesn't sound like a good situation.

 

[deez_nutz2000]

gotta love chicago...

 

[FlyChicaga]

Hey welcome to MDW. Get used to it. Wouldn't be the first time. Next time try DPA. If it made you uncomfortable, why didn't you go-around? That's always an option.

 

[saabcaptain]

On sunday, I was over to mdw, and was final for 22R. There's a Citation sitting there. Waiting for something. I was right there, I mean Right There, when he started rolling. I was over the fence and before he started to lift the nose. I think it was legal, because his wheels were off the ground, mostly, when mine touched. However, it was an uncomfortable situation. When I told tower, the first time, there's an AC sitting there, he said, no problem, he'll be gone before you get there, and he was, but I didn't like it one bit.

welcome to MDW.

 

[sky37d]

thought about go around, really did, but heck, the Skymaster can get down and stopped in a hurry, and 22R is all of 5507 feet long. I don't need any where near that much space. I figured the controller was practicing for OSH.

 

[Loafman]

No, it's my friends at Chicago Express that think ACA guys are $hitty pilots. I don't know why...

Not posting flame bait, but speaking to an O'Hare tower controller on the blue train downtown the other day, he actually complained about the Blue Ridge guys having the most problems in his airspace and on the ground. Nothing personal, just a lack of experience. Eagle will be next to start seeing screw ups as we're hiring really low time people, as evidenced by the recent ATR boo boo.

 

[Vector4fun]

Ummm, I've only heard this rumor over beers with some controllers whose names I, uh, forget;



"4000' and no smoke" is sometimes substituted for the more common 6000' and airborne rule. Your milage and measurements may vary....

I remember sitting at ORD many years ago on a seven hr layover, and watching an evening push. Looked like an old time SAC alert where they launched the whole Wing in 15 minutes....

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

well vector4fun, its happens. We will sometimes loose seperation, pretend it didn't happen and let the plane land without the go around but me being pretty new to the game, I tend to be more cautious and I send them around all the time. If its a matter of maybe 100 feet or so i don't sweat it, but 1000feet, get ready to hit the TOGA.

 

[Vector4fun]

I tend to be more cautious and I send them around all the time. If its a matter of maybe 100 feet or so i don't sweat it, but 1000feet, get ready to hit the TOGA.

Please don't think my post was directed at you; nor would I suggest you do anything else. A Supe once told me:

"Don't ever expect me to cover for you guys."

I took him at his word.

 

[AA717driver]

As for tight spacing on the runway, at STL when things were hopping, many times you'd come over the numbers as the departing aircraft was rotating.

As long as everyone knows what the deal is, it's no problem. You just can't have two sets of gear on the same runway at the same time.

Someone commented on the Citation "hovering". Just getting into corporate I'm noticing they train you to fly 150kts. on long final. No one even mentions or shows you how to keep your speed up at the busy airports. With ref speeds down in the 115 range, that will seriously screw things up in ORD, DFW, LAX...

Maybe ATC will allow passing inside the marker...TC

 

[rightrudder]

Chperplt,

did u really time how long they were on the runway? did you say to yourself " Hey, let me see how long these guys sit here? If so, what prompted you out of the blue to do this? And where did you come up with 1:52?" You seem to bull$hit a lot buddy. I'm not saying that they didnt spend too much time on the rwy, but try not to just make $hit up. J@cka$$.

Hey Nutz,

I don't know how you conduct yourself, but I always start the timer when a heavy jet is cleared for take off and I am next in line.

I want to make sure I have enough spacing. It is not unusual for someone to do this. Who's the real j@cka$$ ?

 

[Russ]

Starting the time after a heavy/75 should be considered sop.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

It is 2 min or 5 miles radar separation behind a heavy...
Read OR. And that don't mean 5 mi on your TCAS. When they clear you for takeoff, they are anticipating 5 miles at the dept end. And it works.

 

[Bandit60]

So are you saying that the plane was on the runway waiting for a waketurb. delay? From a personal position I will not enter the runway while waiting for this delay. I dont want any aircraft landing on top of me.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

If you are next for takeoff you are going to be be put into position and hold. If you don't he will either clear the next guy on the hold and put you back a ways (I would) or clear you for take off about 1 minute after he cleared the heavy for takeoff, in ANTICIPATION OF THE REQUIRED SEPARATION. If you are worried about an aircraft landing on top of you, then you have no situational awareness at all and should not be flying into any busy, congested, or complicated airports. In most busy multi-runway airport, ATL as an example, the departures go out on the in boards and the arrivals land on the outboards. Unless an emergency warrants the inboard with departures lined up, there is pretty much no chance of that happpening.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I don't know how you conduct yourself, but I always start the timer when a heavy jet is cleared for take off and I am next in line.

You time CRJ's for wake turbulence?

Well...maybe that's not a bad idea at that, depending on what you're in.

To be honest, though, I've never timed wake turb. I have, however, closely watched the wind and the heavy's flightpath.

 

[Bandit60]

If you are worried about an aircraft landing on top of you, then you have no situational awareness at all and should not be flying into any busy, congested, or complicated airports.

I do recall this accident happening. I guess 5 people had bad situational awarness. Your argurment is bull **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**. Again, I am only talking about when there is a mandatory wake turbulance delay and you know it is going to be a long one.

I think waiting off the runway is excellent situational awarness.
Maybe you dont think about the your safety or safety of your passengers but I do.

I have done this at ATL many times and the controllers were happy to comply with my request.

Maybe your the one who should not be flying

 

[Vector4fun]

Small point of information, the 7110.65 says;

Do not issue clearances to a small aircraft to taxi into position and hold on the same runway behind a departing heavy jet aircraft to apply the necessary intervals.

So if you're flying a GA aircraft, the tower should not be putting you into position to hold for Wake Turbulence behind a Heavy Jet. IIRC the wording used to be a bit more restrictive, but I could be wrong. Of course, who's to say whether the controller put you in position to apply the necessary interval, or for some other reason??

The controller must also;

When an aircraft is authorized to taxi into takeoff position to hold, inform it of the closest traffic that is cleared to land, touch-and-go, stop-and-go, or unrestricted low approach on the same runway.

I generally have no issue with a pilot that prefers not to taxi into position for a lengthy time. (> 1 minute) But then, I don't have 37 airplanes lined up on a taxiway waiting to go, (Thank God) If I'm going to put someone in position for more than a minute, I make sure and tell them there is no one on final within 10-15 miles.....