BK Judge points to DAL union busting

[bafanguy]

I hope Lee Moak sees the opportunity here. The judge is obviously leaning towards the pilots at this point, .

I wouldn't be encouraged by anything Her Honor says...

 

[Publishers]

The Judge may or may not be sympathetic to the pilot cause. That said, in the end, they all usually rule to the benefit of the majority of employees. Look at it from this view. If she comes down on the pilots side or any group and fails to give management what they want, the Judge risks being the goat if the BK company fails and most do not want that.
You are often dealing with judges that do not really have a feel for a business.

 

[FlyingSig]

You are often dealing with judges that do not really have a feel for a business.

That's the only accurate part of your statement.

The Judge may or may not be sympathetic to the pilot cause. That said, in the end, they all usually rule to the benefit of the majority of employees.

The "cause" has nothing to do with how the judge rules nor is the benefit of any employee. The judge will rule on whether the 9 requirements under section 1113 have been regardless of what it does to pilots or other employees.

Those 9 requirements are:

​

• The company must have made a proposal to the union.
• The proposal must be based upon the most complete and reliable
information available at the time of the proposal.
• The modifications must be necessary to permit reorganization.
• The modifications must provide that all affected parties are treated fairly
and equitably.
• The company must provide the union with such relevant information as is
necessary to evaluate the proposal.
• The company must have met with the collective bargaining representative
at reasonable times subsequent to making the proposal.
• The debtor must have negotiated with the union concerning the proposal
in good faith.
• The union must have refused to accept the proposal without good cause.
• The balance of the equities must clearly favor rejection of the agreement.

The highlighted parts are the contested parts of the 1113 filing. As you can see, by law, the judge is required to be fair and equitable to all employees (including pilots) and not let the pilots take the brunt of the pain.​

 

[General Lee]

The Judge may or may not be sympathetic to the pilot cause. That said, in the end, they all usually rule to the benefit of the majority of employees. Look at it from this view. If she comes down on the pilots side or any group and fails to give management what they want, the Judge risks being the goat if the BK company fails and most do not want that.
You are often dealing with judges that do not really have a feel for a business.

I think this line describes Publishers to a tee:

"Frankly, I think you have a bias here," "It's a personal bias against the pilots."


You really seem to be a management plant, or a know it all who reads a lot of books (hence the Publishers name).

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FNG320]

The Judge may or may not be sympathetic to the pilot cause. That said, in the end, they all usually rule to the benefit of the majority of employees. Look at it from this view. If she comes down on the pilots side or any group and fails to give management what they want, the Judge risks being the goat if the BK company fails and most do not want that.
You are often dealing with judges that do not really have a feel for a business.

Is not a BK judge's duty not only to the Company, but also to the creditors and the employees? Is it not His/her job is to balance them all? I am pretty sure that the creditors are #1 and the company and employee tied at #2. If the company cannot produce a fair plan (in her opinion) then she must protect the creditors and force the company to liquidate. At least she appears to be making the company do its job and put together a fair plan vs negotiate with labor fairly. (vs the style of negotiating with a gun to the head of labor like United, NWA, USAIR, etc like to do) At least that is how it looks to me.

Still, good luck to you guys.

Just my opinion...

FNG

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Perhaps her boss told her to make some silly pro pilot comments to counter the anti comments she made earlier.... it really means nothing after all...

 

[General Lee]

Perhaps her boss told her to make some silly pro pilot comments to counter the anti comments she made earlier.... it really means nothing after all...

At least the press didn't get a hold of it........And, they have 14 year terms as judge.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Publishers]

General I am not a plant, however have been managing aviation companies, writing articles, publishing magazines, and testifying as an expert in a 30 year career that covers 91, 121, 135, and Fixed Base Operations.

The judge usually is first turning to see if the company is viable to continue at all. That usually puts the employees first as they are necessary to continue. Voiding contracts such as aircraft leases, union contracts, supplier contracts, putting off debt, restructuring, all these things are examined usuallly presented by management to make the company more viable. If she has no faith in the managment, she has the option of placing a Trustee at the helm.
Trustee's tend to have their first priority in seeing that they get paid and the cash is there to keep it going, then hire others to consult and come up with the plan.
Creditors and shareholders usually are going to get the shaft. Suppliers like the leasing company can get their asset back if they are secured. Unsecured creditors and shareholders may end up with nothing.

My earlier point was that regardless of her sympathies, there is inherent risk to telling managment they are wrong and ruling against them. Does that mean it is impossible that she would rule for the pilots, -- No. Just that at this point when you rule against what management says they need, there is some risk. When you have a trustee, the risk is theres although most of them make sure they get theirs on the way out.

As to the bias against pilots, there is little that makes sense to a businessman of the airline industry whether management or pilots.

 

[PHXFLYR]

I think this line describes Publishers to a tee:

"Frankly, I think you have a bias here," "It's a personal bias against the pilots."


You really seem to be a management plant, or a know it all who reads a lot of books (hence the Publishers name).

Bye Bye--General Lee

Pot,meet kettle.....


PHXFLYR

 

[General Lee]

Pot,meet kettle.....


PHXFLYR

Ok, what? I have a bias against pilots? I do? Maybe against a couple in PHX that are total goofs. Other than that, I like pilots a lot more than management.



Publishers,

I am glad you have run companies etc and publish books. Good for you. I understand you have an opinion, and that is good also. I think the judge is seeing that the pilots have contributed in good faith, and that management hasn't kept their side of the bargin, with bad management practices. The judge is telling it how it is. I am not against giving back some more pay, and I don't think we are "above that." I do think that management is using bankruptcy as a grab bag, and that isn't right. Looks like the judge may agree.


Bye Bye--General Lee