Biggest issue for the "new United" pilots - SCOPE!

[HHH]

IF this merger goes through, the careers of the CAL and United pilots hinges on SCOPE! The primary influence of SLI would be how CAL 50 seat scope is handled (via the Joint CBA).

Personally - NO SCOPE RELIEF! NO SCOPE RELIEF! NO SCOPE RELIEF!

For those that have been around, any thoughts on how this will be handled/twisted by management? How will the issue of feeders currently flying 70 seaters for United?

 

[Yuppyguppy]

All the little RJ companies need to be shown the door. Mesa, Trans States, Republic, Shuttle America, ********************aka, and let's not forget BLOJET i mean GoJet.

It's MAINLINE FLYING YOU PUNKS GET OVER YOURSELVES

 

[bluefin]

Hopefully its a deal breaker! Both MEC's must develope and show brass nuggets. I remember morse stating that scope was not negotiable. What scope she's talking about still has yet to be seen. I hope get to see the day regionals are complaining about getting furloughed and screaming "thats our flying", especially since the only reason U parked 100 a/c was to look better for this deal.

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

I've said it before and I stick by it, I'm currently at a regional (guess which one...) and I'm begging you guys not to give one single inch on CONTINENTAL's scope! Any other improvements you might win in a trade off for scope relief won't matter when the "new" United management simply outsources your job to a regional feeder. Don't give management the rope to hang you with by thinking that good pay raises are worth relaxed scope, what good is a great payrate if you're furloughed and not on property to earn it???

 

[BUDDHA145]

If they break the deal with all does regionals they will have
to enter chap11 again to avoid the massive amount of
fees on top of the agreement fee for the entire contract!!
That's lots and lots of mula!!! I bet they will honor the conttract
till expires then.... No renewals... But who cares what I think

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Hmm. New companies require new contracts.

 

[Bigoober]

DO NOT CAVE ON SCOPE!

Sorry that I yelled this.

 

[AvroGuy]

Hmm. New companies require new contracts.

not a new company though, it is a merger. I would think contracts have to be honored. Look at NWA/Delta, AA/TWA, America West/US Air. They all keep feed.

 

[Iflyamouse]

All the little RJ companies need to be shown the door. Mesa, Trans States, Republic, Shuttle America, ********************aka, and let's not forget BLOJET i mean GoJet.

It's MAINLINE FLYING YOU PUNKS GET OVER YOURSELVES

First, let me say i agree, I'd like to see it be mainline flying too. More major jobs = more more jobs for everyone.

However, how is this going to happen? Simple economics at the major airlines will make 70/90/110 seat flying very tough. It's not just about pilots. How will you convince a mechanic who works on a EMB190 that he should make less money than the mechanic in the bay next door who is working on a 747. How are you going to convince the FA to work for less when she passes out Biscoff's to the pax on a CRJ700 than she does when she steps on the 777? What about the marshaller who's been at CAL for 25 years? you gonna tell him he will make less on the days he has to park an RJ?

I know, I know ... you say the problem is in the "doing it for less" statement. But the fact of the matter is that if you show all these regionals the door, someone will turn right around and start a 70/90/110 seat operation that expands faster than you can get off the ground in JFK. Before you know it they have a market share that's tough to compete with (ala Southwest). Watch out ... Republic is already headed down this road. With 30% less operating costs, that C-series is gonna change the game.

If i remember right, AA tried something similar a few years ago. Pilots said they would fly RJ's for the "right pay" (whatever that is) but all the other labor groups told them to pound sand.

And don't blame regional pilots for flying for less. They just go where the jobs are to make a living which takes me back to the statement above. It's not just the airline business ... look how long Arby's held out from the dollar menu game. This year they finally caved.

So the question is ... if you're going to keep 70-110 seat flying at the majors (and I hope you do), how are you going to do it?

 

[imacdog]

All the little RJ companies need to be shown the door. Mesa, Trans States, Republic, Shuttle America, ********************aka, and let's not forget BLOJET i mean GoJet.

It's MAINLINE FLYING YOU PUNKS GET OVER YOURSELVES

Yeah and you mainline guys wanted the flying so bad that you voted it away. :laugh: You must feel pretty smart now I bet.

 

[IAHERJ]

The answer is to let the regional contracts for 70 seat aircraft expire at their normal expiration dates. If the new United needs these aircraft they become mainline aircraft. If that means we have to contract for training with the very same airline we just severed ties with than so be it. We become a launch customer for the new C-series or the M-jet for aircraft seating 85-115 seats and these aircraft become mainline aircraft with simulators located in IAH or DEN. Mainline mechanics work on them and mainine flight attendants staff the cabins. End of story. We sign agreements with the current 70 seat operators offering any displaced pilots interviews with UAL if the expiration of the 70 seat contracts down the road result in the furloughs of that particular company's pilots. Another angle would be to interview the pilots in seniority order at the carriers affected by cuts due to the loss of the 70 seat jets thus resulting in upward movement at the effected carriers. Work with Bombardier to phase out the CRJ700/900 we will now own(or hold the leases on) in a deal for C-series jets down the road. I think it will work out. Those pilots at these carriers that do not get picked up by UAL during the preferential interview process probably would have been lifers at the regional level anyway so at least if interviews are offered in seniority order at the effected regional airlines that person can advance upward by having mainline UAL take over the 70+ seat flying.
This will not happen over a 2 year period. It may take a decade but it WILL bring back the furloughed UAL/CAL pilots a lot quicker and provide stable mainline jobs going forward for thousands of pilots looking forward to a career in the airlines.

 

[Caveman]

All the little RJ companies need to be shown the door. Mesa, Trans States, Republic, Shuttle America, ********************aka, and let's not forget BLOJET i mean GoJet.

It's MAINLINE FLYING YOU PUNKS GET OVER YOURSELVES

Care to explain the E145 and Jetstream experience in your bio?

 

[Baronman]

Care to explain the E145 and Jetstream experience in your bio?

Mere stepping stones on the path to greatness!

 

[mamba20]

IF this merger goes through, the careers of the CAL and United pilots hinges on SCOPE! The primary influence of SLI would be how CAL 50 seat scope is handled (via the Joint CBA).

Personally - NO SCOPE RELIEF! NO SCOPE RELIEF! NO SCOPE RELIEF!

For those that have been around, any thoughts on how this will be handled/twisted by management? How will the issue of feeders currently flying 70 seaters for United?

You mean the new Continental pilots.

 

[deadstick]

Care to explain the E145 and Jetstream experience in your bio?

Exactly.

IAHERJ -- good, rational post.

Yuppypuppy -- eh, not so much.

I would hate to see the scope at CAL breached. CALs contract has been the last hope, the last holdout if you will, for (some of) those at the regionals who wanted to go to a major. Growth needs to come at the mainlines. Otherwise, the the dream is over. 53%+ of the flights provided by regionals because they are cheaper is not making this career better, more rewarding, or more stable.

Take it back, hold on to it, whatever. Just get 'er done.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Yeah and you mainline guys wanted the flying so bad that you voted it away. :laugh: You must feel pretty smart now I bet.

How smart is a 70K paycheck flying the booger jets?

Get the flying back to mainline... make mainline pay.

I can't see any RJ pilot wanting to continue making crap wage voluntarily.

 

[Homer Jay]

I received an e-mail back from Pierce acknowledging my scope concerns. All UAL and CAL pilots should be e-mailing their respective MEC's and LEC reps. Make your voices heard. This is WAY too important to be taken lightly.

 

[HHH]

I received an e-mail back from Pierce acknowledging my scope concerns. All UAL and CAL pilots should be e-mailing their respective MEC's and LEC reps. Make your voices heard. This is WAY too important to be taken lightly.

What did he have to say?

 

[HHH]

You mean the new Continental pilots.

I'm with you. It should be Continental Airlines with Continental pilots...then again I'm just "staff".

 

[Homer Jay]

What did he have to say?

Just that he appreciates the feedback and understands my concerns with scope. I know he must be busy as he11 right now so I'm glad I at least got a response and recognition that my voice has been heard.

 

[scarlet]

Yeah stop paying Republic and then competeing against them. Or having Republic Deadheading their crewmembers on your flight to cover their flights (Frontier flts)., or fueling their plain white a/c at United gate and then taxi to Frontier gate=United pays the fuel.

 

[V1rowt8]

Uuuhhh... What?

 

[skywdriver]

The answer is to let the regional contracts for 70 seat aircraft expire at their normal expiration dates. If the new United needs these aircraft they become mainline aircraft. If that means we have to contract for training with the very same airline we just severed ties with than so be it. We become a launch customer for the new C-series or the M-jet for aircraft seating 85-115 seats and these aircraft become mainline aircraft with simulators located in IAH or DEN. Mainline mechanics work on them and mainine flight attendants staff the cabins. End of story. We sign agreements with the current 70 seat operators offering any displaced pilots interviews with UAL if the expiration of the 70 seat contracts down the road result in the furloughs of that particular company's pilots. Another angle would be to interview the pilots in seniority order at the carriers affected by cuts due to the loss of the 70 seat jets thus resulting in upward movement at the effected carriers. Work with Bombardier to phase out the CRJ700/900 we will now own(or hold the leases on) in a deal for C-series jets down the road. I think it will work out. Those pilots at these carriers that do not get picked up by UAL during the preferential interview process probably would have been lifers at the regional level anyway so at least if interviews are offered in seniority order at the effected regional airlines that person can advance upward by having mainline UAL take over the 70+ seat flying.
This will not happen over a 2 year period. It may take a decade but it WILL bring back the furloughed UAL/CAL pilots a lot quicker and provide stable mainline jobs going forward for thousands of pilots looking forward to a career in the airlines.

Very well said, probably nothing we can do about current 70 seaters with current contracts, but not one more 70 seater on property, and as contracts expire, all additional flying over 50 seats comes to mainline. WE have the chance to reverse something that has been degrading this career since 9-11. If we are able to make this change, I guarantee you every contract negotiation from here on out with other legacy carriers will follow suit. 50-70 seat jets are going to be obsolete from an efficiency standpoint once the newer 90-110 seaters hit the market. If the combined company wants a piece of that action, they will agree to let mainline pilots fly those jets. IF they don't, then that is a bad business decision on their part and not my problem. Outsourcing must stop now.

 

[maxblast72]

Watch out ... Republic is already headed down this road. With 30% less operating costs, that C-series is gonna change the game.

The only road Republic is heading down is the same one Independence did. No way Republic survives longterm from the competition Southwest is bringing in Denver and Airtran is bringing in Milwaukee. Republic ain't going to have their branded operation long enough to be the Bombardier CS-300 North American launch customer in 2015. What is Republic's cash position, $200 million? That won't last too long against 2 of the strongest LCCs in the business.

 

[johnsonrod]

Don't worry, Pratter will oversee this. He also said initially he was against age 65. You can trust him. Sure you can.

 

[PCL_128]

Don't worry, Pratter will oversee this. He also said initially he was against age 65.

No he didn't. He was a blatant supporter of Age 65 from the first day of his campaign.

 

[thor2j]

No he didn't. He was a blatant supporter of Age 65 from the first day of his campaign.

Check your facts, Prater flat out lied and said he would stay out of the issue. Mean while he was working back door deals to have it changed.

 

[Jetjockey]

Facts on Flight Info?!??! Since when?

 

[PCL_128]

Check your facts, Prater flat out lied and said he would stay out of the issue. Mean while he was working back door deals to have it changed.

Your "facts" are incorrect. I was a rep at the time of his campaign and election, and I still have all of his campaign materials. He was quite open from the very beginning about his stance on the issue.

 

[jtf]

If they can't agree to at least stop any further 50+ seat expansion and let all the current 50+ seat contracts expire and be replaced by mainline, then I hope the Continental pilots scuttle the whole thing. Hell, if I were them I also scuttle it if Tilton has any management position above VP of Toilet Cleaning. I honestly wish both pilot groups good luck with whatever becomes of this. The airlines are a rough place to have a career and everyone involved needs as much luck as possible in a merger.