Big Unions: Introduce an Act the Would Release Aviation from The Railway Labor Act

[FDJ2]

Exactly. Get your butt to work ALPA.

Support ALPA-PAC.

 

[~~~^~~~]

+1

ALPA PAC is important.

 

[FDJ2]

Age 65 was opposed by the majority of members and yet ALPA National supported it. That hardly supports your bottom up theory.

Actually, the majority of ALPA pilots surveyed supported having a say in the new law if it was inevitable that the age 60 rule was going to change. ALPA did the right thing for it's members, the law was changing, with or without ALPA. You can get run over by the train racing down the tracks, or you can get onboard and help drive the train.

 

[Hamburger]

I am wondering why gigantic unions like ALPA, with all their lobbyists, haven't done anything toward eliminating the Railway Labor Act from pertaining to aviation?

They're too busy pushing for Age 65 even though the majority of their membership was against it.

Actually, the majority of ALPA pilots surveyed supported having a say in the new law if it was inevitable that the age 60 rule was going to change.

Notice how in the PUSH POLL you are referencing, they never actually asked if it was supported on just it's merits? Not any need really, they had three previous polls that clearly stated the will of the membership. Tacking on a condition that it was "inevitable" to twist the question is a move only a fool couldn't see through. The whole point of any political or labor organization is to stand up against things that others declare inevitable.

ALPA PAC took a lot of income from me with that move and they will never see another cent.

 

[Max Powers]

You proponents of getting out from under the Railway Labor Law might want to consider this.

Any Tom, Dick, and Harry union would then be free to strike when ever they wanted. How would you like to be out of work frequently because the mechanics or the flight attendants or the rampers decide to strike.

The chaos would be worse than what you have now. The reason for the Law in the first place was to keep the railroads running. Before highways were built the only intercity traffic was on the railroads. The early airlines were closely controlled by the Commerce Department and then the CAB. If an airline went on strike many cities would have no service at all since many places only had one airline serving it much like only one railroad in town. Authorizing a substitute carrier was slow and cumberson. That era is over but if you want to be off the payroll frequently because some other labor group on your airline decides to strike, well go for it. Lose the protection that the RLA provides you and that would be the result. IMHO.

WOW....You are looking at this through short-sighted and fearful glasses. Mechanics and rampers are easy to replace if they choose to strike. Just look at NWA 4000 mechanics leave and NWA hardly missed a beat, completion factor after one week was hardly changed.

Pilots on the other hand you can not replace, this gives us leverage in negotiations. No one is saying we are going to walk out the next day, if this thing passes, but some profitable companies are going on five plus years past amendable date. Enough is enough. Every other industry has the right to self-help without the RLA to hold them back - it's now our turn.

 

[Hamburger]

. Lose the protection that the RLA provides you and that would be the result. IMHO.

Got to say, that's the very first time I've heard of the RLA being in place for my protection.

That era is over.

Exactly.

 

[FDJ2]

Tacking on a condition that it was "inevitable" to twist the question is a move only a fool couldn't see through.

Only a fool couldn't see that the law was going to change, with or without ALPA.

ALPA did the right thing. They polled the membership and got direction on how to procede when the writing was clearly already on the wall with regards to the age 60 rule.

 

[ualdriver]

ALPA PAC took a lot of income from me with that move and they will never see another cent.

Must be nice to be a "single issue" pilot such as yourself. Good thing there's no more BIG political fights coming down the road, like foreign ownership or cabotage issues. I mean, Age 65 is an annoyance compared to an Indonesian pilot flying between LAX and ORD for 3rd world wages. But, you're right. Once the Age 65 fight was lost, why should we fight further?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Maybe I've missed a class in government, but I am wondering why gigantic unions like ALPA, with all their lobbyists, haven't done anything toward eliminating the Railway Labor Act from pertaining to aviation?

With ALL their lobbyist? How many do you think ALPA has? In addition, ALPA pilots think ALPA staffers are over paid... so its not like we are attracting the big K street talent....

That is one of the single biggest hindrances to this profession, (and now that out goverment is controlled by a union-approved and supported group), why has this not happened in ALL these years????

You state.... 'and now out govt...... why has this not happened is ALL these years...

Our 'here and now' gov't has been in office for a couple of weeks... not all these years... so how can we expect changes?

Why not lobby for the elimination of it and creation of a more applicable system (and more labor friendly) that does not exempt its workers from the basic privileges and work rules most other occupations are privy to.

You mean like a more labor friendly Europe.

Sorry, we Americans like our free enterprise... the RLA is designed to keep commerce going. The RLA is heavily favored to corporations.

In addition, the corporations have much more money that we do to spend on lobbyist. It is an up hill battle.

What really rubs, is pilots generate revenue for the company, the company in turns uses that revenue to hire lobbyist to work against us on CapHill.

The worst is pilots at Skywest and jetblue. See management there belong to the RAA and ATA, respectively. These are lobby groups. At least union pilots have a voice on CapHill. The OO and JB pilots make money for the company and then the company uses that money to lobby congress, with usually counter results.

At times, union and company work together.... at times they do not. I'd much rather be represented.

Why is it acceptable to not be paid during ALL hours of duty? (Note: per diem is not hourly pay, it is per diem). How is there not rioting in Washington over this insane travesty?

I'll address that in the end of this post...

THIS is the biggest issue you should be demanding that your unions immediately force their PAID LOBBYISTS (who no doubt have politicians in their pockets who can take it to the finish line) to aggressively pursue full time.

It is all coming together...

PASS IT ON and do NOT let it die.

...if everyone keeps this in the forefront and not hold an apathetic attitude this CAN be changed!

Well you just nailed it... apathy.

Why change the RLA when we have not fully explored the possibilities?

ALPA-PAC participation is at about 14%.
There is minimal participation at picketing events and demonstrations.

ALPA is a resource not a service.

Until there is a sea of uniformed pilots with hats on the Washington DC Mall, saying we are a force you must deal with, there will be no changes...

If you try and change the RLA it will be all about negotiation... corp America will want something in return. CorpAmerica already has the advantage, why ould they give that up....

We can be a force to reckon with... but we have to empower our leadership with numbers....

The ATA, managements version of ALPA, was formed in 1936 in part to counter ALPA's political effectiveness.

However, another force was given to the ALPA president....

Resignation letters. The ALPA President, Dave Behnke, a United Pilots, held in his hand the resignation letters of a pilot group he represented.


Anyone around here ready to give their MEC chairman a resignation letter to negotiate with?

See, ALPA pilots today think ALPA is more like a shop at the Mall next to The Sharper Image and Abercrombie And Fitch.... a service store where dues is more like cash and 100% guarantees. ALPA pilots want money in their accounts, not necessarily professional status. Oh they want the status if they can get it, but only if it is free....


In other words, they want the reward without the responsibility..........

 

[PCL_128]

The RLA isn't really a bad law when it's applied as it was originally intended. The problem comes in when an administration has no intention of following the intent of the law.

In my opinion, the way to fix the problem is not to get rid of the RLA, but to slightly amend it. Time limits should be considered that would limit the amount of time that can be spent in direct negotiations and mediation. After that time limit was reached without a deal, a release would be automatic.

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

The RLA isn't really a bad law when it's applied as it was originally intended. The problem comes in when an administration has no intention of following the intent of the law.

In my opinion, the way to fix the problem is not to get rid of the RLA, but to slightly amend it. Time limits should be considered that would limit the amount of time that can be spent in direct negotiations and mediation. After that time limit was reached without a deal, a release would be automatic.

Bingo

 

[A-V-8]

Time limits should be considered that would limit the amount of time that can be spent in direct negotiations and mediation. After that time limit was reached without a deal, a release would be automatic.

Hilary Clinton introduced a bill that would do that. It was co sponsored but I can't remember by whom. I read about this in Airline Pilot mag. during the election. I searched for the bill and e-mailed her HQ asking but I couldn't find it. This could be major for us if it could get earmarked to something else.

 

[Hamburger]

Must be nice to be a "single issue" pilot such as yourself. Good thing there's no more BIG political fights coming down the road, like foreign ownership or cabotage issues. Once the Age 65 fight was lost, why should we fight further?

The "single issue" is the fact that they did the exact opposite of the Will of the Membership and actually supported the change. If we had actually voted for it, or at the very least not voted against it time and time again, I wouldn't have a problem.
Inevitable, my ass. The FAA Admistrator, President, and Congress that enacted it are all gone barely a year later. Age 65 was lost because they refused to fight. Big political fights are coming down the pipe and they've demonstrated that they are willing to take a dive. Cabotage is inevitable, it's what they do in Europe, Trater told me so, he's already forming a Blue Ribbon Panel.

 

[JohnQ]

The "single issue" is the fact that they did the exact opposite of the Will of the Membership and actually supported the change. If we had actually voted for it, or at the very least not voted against it time and time again, I wouldn't have a problem.
Inevitable, my ass. The FAA Admistrator, President, and Congress that enacted it are all gone barely a year later. Age 65 was lost because they refused to fight.

BS. Age 65 passed without ONE nay vote in Congress--including those representatives from the APA's own district. The APA proved to be the worthless ones in this issue--they put out "feel good" press releases opposing Age 65, knowing full well that there was a greater chance of a meteor crashing into AA's corporate offices than Age 65 not passing.

ALPA on the other hand actually acted like a grown up (yes, I know that is usually verboten on such esteemed sites such as FI.com) and realized that "change" was coming whether we wanted it or not. Due to ALPA's influence the Age 65 language was crafted to at least prevent thousands of recently retired 61-year-olds coming back to "their" left seats, making the new rule even more onerous than it already is.

I have never heard one guy from ALPA--local, MEC, or national--proclaim how happy and proud he was that Age 65 is now the law of the land. But opposing it without any other mentality than "no no no, nyah, nyah, nyah" would have been an exercise in absolute futility. I prefer my leadership to be a bit more responsible than that.

 

[AC560]

All releasing airlines from the RLA would do is introduce pilots to the piece of legislation that is Taft Hartley.

Bush and other Presidents never sent people back to work using the RLA they sent people back to work using Taft Hartley.