semperfido
Keep Humpin
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Big Netjets decision...Need Help!
- Thread starter WillFlyFoCookie
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FLYnMONKEYS
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beytzim said:
Never said NJ was better than Southwest. I was trying to relate the fact that flying in the majors is very much different than it used to be.
Southwest created a bussiness model that has changed the industry forever. Price is their clame to fame, while I'll admit their people are always friendly their service sucks. People only fly on them because they believe it's a good bargin. People used to put a premium on frequency of schedule, perks for frequent fliers (using points to go somewhere other than BWI), and eating on a flight, not to mention an assigned seat.
Now the other airlines are trying their hardest to be like Southwest. Some of these companies will not survive. Some of these companies will beat Southwest at their own game eventually. Don't know who but it will be the ones who are willing to lower the bar even more.
As for me, a former major airline pilot, I'm glad to be at NetJets. I believe over the long run it will be more stable than any airline, including Southwest. I put a premium on that.
Semore Butts
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- Feb 15, 2002
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beytzim
Well-known member
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- Nov 26, 2001
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Netjets has hardly proven a succesful past fostering a successful future:
1. Netjets has laid off pilots before
2. Netjets management/union relationships are absolutely awful (even with the T/A)
Remember, you practically had to get on your knees for four years, begging to get a descent wage that Santulli promised you anyway in 2001.
3. Netjets' business model failed to bring a sustainable profit when sales were slowing. That's when Boisture tried to get a profit from Flight Operations - an impossiblity.
4. Further, the business model is flawed by the greedy unabated jump into the Marquis program. Eventually owners will demand to know why their aircraft are accumulating twice the hours they initially expected, dropping resale values and transforming NJA into a glorified charter company.
The fact is that Netjets has yet to establish a consistent business model that will work for the long term. So don't be so confident, my friend.
Poor people are very predictable- they always go to the 'percieved' cheapest airline. Rich people are much harder to predict: price is not really a factor, its percieved value and stature, which is very subjective - don't be so sure NJA will hold the top 'percieved value' forever. Netjets has become very inefficient, reversing the theory of econimies of scale, don't be so sure that smaller companies like CitationShares won't come and bite you in the a$$ with better efficiencies and values.
One more addendum. Many pilots grounded airplanes left and right for the last 12 months - that had to create some bad blood with the owners - those owners may go elsewhere when their contract ends.
Netjets future is hardly written in stone. A smart pilot would rely on FedEx/SWA/UPS for a a stable future, period.
1. Netjets has laid off pilots before
2. Netjets management/union relationships are absolutely awful (even with the T/A)
Remember, you practically had to get on your knees for four years, begging to get a descent wage that Santulli promised you anyway in 2001.
3. Netjets' business model failed to bring a sustainable profit when sales were slowing. That's when Boisture tried to get a profit from Flight Operations - an impossiblity.
4. Further, the business model is flawed by the greedy unabated jump into the Marquis program. Eventually owners will demand to know why their aircraft are accumulating twice the hours they initially expected, dropping resale values and transforming NJA into a glorified charter company.
The fact is that Netjets has yet to establish a consistent business model that will work for the long term. So don't be so confident, my friend.
Poor people are very predictable- they always go to the 'percieved' cheapest airline. Rich people are much harder to predict: price is not really a factor, its percieved value and stature, which is very subjective - don't be so sure NJA will hold the top 'percieved value' forever. Netjets has become very inefficient, reversing the theory of econimies of scale, don't be so sure that smaller companies like CitationShares won't come and bite you in the a$$ with better efficiencies and values.
One more addendum. Many pilots grounded airplanes left and right for the last 12 months - that had to create some bad blood with the owners - those owners may go elsewhere when their contract ends.
Netjets future is hardly written in stone. A smart pilot would rely on FedEx/SWA/UPS for a a stable future, period.
FL450
Well-known member
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- May 28, 2002
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- 108
Gulfstream 200 said:
Not so sure about that statement. Guess it depends how long you've been here and what equipment you're in. I suppose I'm partial being in the BBJ, but there are quite a few others that enjoy their place here as well. Those in the EX and senior Class 3 drivers will perhaps have a shot at a good thing here, all things considered.
Why not just let it be? We can't all have it as golden as you do!
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Gulfstream 200
Database Expert
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- Jan 21, 2002
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- 4,574
FL450 said:Not so sure about that statement. Guess it depends how long you've been here and what equipment you're in. I suppose I'm partial being in the BBJ, but there are quite a few others that enjoy their place here as well. Those in the EX and senior Class 3 drivers will perhaps have a shot at a good thing here, all things considered.
Why not just let it be? We can't all have it as golden as you do!
Its about keeping industry pay and standards high. Nobody can predict when they may be looking for work.
Nobody should agree to those numbers, no way. You all work much harder than that.
You may have gotten accustomed to flying for peanuts (except you 6 BBJ pilots) but think about it, these numbers you jump at will last for what....10 more years?
squonk
Who is the gaucho, amigo?
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beytzim:
Your tea leaves prediciton is half right. We have had owners leave in droves this year. Most that were candid with me, were not jumping from the pan into the fire and going with another fractional, but getting back into whole ownership.
This is the part where you were off base. It wasn't because of anything the pilots did that drove them off. It was the way they were treated by management and owner services. Specifically being lied to about delays and aircraft availability. The one thing OS forgets is that the pilots are the last line of defence for any BS that was fed to the owner. If we don't cover their lies, then the owner fiqures out fairly quick who is pissing on their leg and telling them it's raining. This worked in the past when everyone was playing ball, but now we let them sink or swim.
Your tea leaves prediciton is half right. We have had owners leave in droves this year. Most that were candid with me, were not jumping from the pan into the fire and going with another fractional, but getting back into whole ownership.
This is the part where you were off base. It wasn't because of anything the pilots did that drove them off. It was the way they were treated by management and owner services. Specifically being lied to about delays and aircraft availability. The one thing OS forgets is that the pilots are the last line of defence for any BS that was fed to the owner. If we don't cover their lies, then the owner fiqures out fairly quick who is pissing on their leg and telling them it's raining. This worked in the past when everyone was playing ball, but now we let them sink or swim.
FL450
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 28, 2002
- Posts
- 108
G200-
6 BBJ pilots? Numbers I jump at? Interesting comments, but off target. I understand your concern with raising the bar, so perhaps you can explain to us all how good you have it at your place of employment? Share with us all your salary, seniority and prospects for maintaining those for the next 10 years.
While you're at it, perhaps you will enlighten us all by explaining what you personally have done to help the industry besides not working for NetJets?
6 BBJ pilots? Numbers I jump at? Interesting comments, but off target. I understand your concern with raising the bar, so perhaps you can explain to us all how good you have it at your place of employment? Share with us all your salary, seniority and prospects for maintaining those for the next 10 years.
While you're at it, perhaps you will enlighten us all by explaining what you personally have done to help the industry besides not working for NetJets?
acaTerry
SAPM
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2001
- Posts
- 2,393
I've been at two airlines, evan Captain at the beter of the two (and that was in the good days before 9/11). The pay has been my only gripe, but that will be changing now if things go as expected with the TA.
I for one will not return to the airlines. Yes, NJA is more work by far, but I feel good after a tour, not exhausted and angry like the airlines. If I were you I would come here. You may decide you don't want SWA after all. Besides, simply having the 1000 PIC may not be enough to get the job. And besides that too, SWA will be growing until the whole world is blue and orange, so there should be hiring there a long time. To quote John Lennon: "All we are saying....is give NJA a chaaaaaance".
I for one will not return to the airlines. Yes, NJA is more work by far, but I feel good after a tour, not exhausted and angry like the airlines. If I were you I would come here. You may decide you don't want SWA after all. Besides, simply having the 1000 PIC may not be enough to get the job. And besides that too, SWA will be growing until the whole world is blue and orange, so there should be hiring there a long time. To quote John Lennon: "All we are saying....is give NJA a chaaaaaance".
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WillFlyFoCookie
On Wisconsin
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2004
- Posts
- 104
Thanks All
Netjets should be a great place to work! I start indoc on the 7th of November and am assigned the mighty Ultra. I'm very excited about it all. NJA does feel like somewhere I will be long term. Thank you to everybody who contributed their honest opinion...I took them all to heart!
Now, I guess it's back to studying!
Netjets should be a great place to work! I start indoc on the 7th of November and am assigned the mighty Ultra. I'm very excited about it all. NJA does feel like somewhere I will be long term. Thank you to everybody who contributed their honest opinion...I took them all to heart!
Now, I guess it's back to studying!
Guitar Guy
Charvel - San Dimas
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2004
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