Best route for airline pilot career?

[fussle]

Alright here is the deal; I am currently an instrument-rated private pilot and am going for my commercial ticket soon. I am also in my first year of college. After that, I am contemplating whether or not to go to a place like ComAir, Pan Am, etc. to pursue my aviation career in becoming an airline pilot, or if I should just get my ratings on the side along with my degree. I am just not sure how much of an advantage going to a school like ComAir gives you. For example, is any airline more likely to pick a ComAir graduate with 1200 hours, versus a 2500 hour experienced pilot? I guess my main question is, what route is best for my situation to get in the airlines?

Thanks,
Erik

 

[justApilot]

Honestly....Get your degree in something other than aviation and get out while you can. The airline industry has gone down the crapper, the big money is gone for good! No...really I am serious!
I work for 25% less under a worthless contract. What's left retirement? That will for sure be gone by the time I retire. Find yourself a USAir guy that is in his last years. Those guys will tell you a story!

GET OUT before you waste anymore time and money on a career that is just about worthless.

But if you really want to know how to make the crap wages, with a crap contract and a crap retirement. Someone on this board will tell you.

 

[GogglesPisano]

I am just not sure how much of an advantage going to a school like ComAir gives you. For example, is any airline more likely to pick a ComAir graduate with 1200 hours, versus a 2500 hour experienced pilot? I guess my main question is, what route is best for my situation to get in the airlines?

Thanks,
Erik

I suppose going to Comair's school might give you an edge if you want to work for Comair, otherwise you're just spending more money than you need to.

Major in something non-aviation.

Learn to fly at a local Ma and Pa school that will HIRE you when you get your CFI.

Enjoy the ride -- it's long and rocky. And hopefully you'll enjoy the ride itself, otherwise you'll be unhappy.

 

[de727ups]

Experience and ratings

Hours and ratings are all that matter. If you went to an academy that has a hiring program/agreement with an airline....then you might get by with less hours working through their hiring scheme. Otherwise...it's hours and ratings. Nobody other than Comair could care less that you trained there. Take your Comair ratings and experience to another airline and they couldn't care less what school you went to...it's hours and ratings that's important.

 

[172driver]

True, but...you have to add at least Chautauqua and ASA to that list. Many academy grads are going to Chautauqua right now with 1000 hrs and the same will be true for ASA when they start hiring again. Competitive mins for those from anywhere except the academy are obviously much higher.

 

[bobbysamd]

Training choices

You really have to analyze the school route in terms of credit they might give you for your hours and ratings. You might be better off finishing at an FBO while going to college. You are somewhat betwixt and between because of your hours, Private and Instrument. At your stage it would be ridiculous and a real waste of money to start a 141 program from the beginning.

You need to find out from Comair, Pan Am or wherever if you would be given credit for your hours and ratings and not have to take the entire 141 program. You also have to factor in whether you would receive the same consideration for post-grad CFI work as someone who went through the program from zero time. I would bet the answer to both questions will be "no." Schools tend to give more consideration to students who started with them ab initio.

On the other hand, most schools will work with you on a Part 61 basis to finish. That way, you won't lose the work you have completed. But it goes back to the question of fair and equal employment consideration with full-program grads after you finish.

You could transfer to an aviation college and earn everything there. But you may run into the same trap as above with your hours and ratings. It may be worth it in terms of connections you can make and opportunities you might have. I already had my degree and only needed my multi ratings when I decided to change careers. In looking back, I feel I should have finished my ratings at an aviation college and earned a second degree in Aero Science.

Hope this analysis helps a little. Good luck with whichever direction you proceed.

 

[172driver]

You must complete at least two ratings at DCA to be eligible for the CFI job. Many people begin in the CFI program but I would advise doing at least Commercial through CFII because the procedures, standards, process are a little more rigorous than FBO training and it's hard to start off in the CFI course teaching them if you didn't really learn them there first. Not impossible, by any means, just more challenging.

 

[Low and Fast]

The Academys and the Regionals

Like anyone else will tell you The ACADEMYs arent worth all they are made out to be. And the REGIONALS!?!?!? WHAT A JOKE!
A source close to me has told me that nearly everyone he has met that works for a regional qualifies for food stamps!(similar to a flight instructors pay) What a life eh?


Its just not what it used to be......Been around the Corporate world and Commercial liners all my life and am fortunate enough to have a father that has lucked out in his aviation career but only because he had his feet set in place before everything went down the drain.

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Re: The Academys and the Regionals

Like anyone else will tell you The ACADEMYs arent worth all they are made out to be. And the REGIONALS!?!?!? WHAT A JOKE!
A source close to me has told me that nearly everyone he has met that works for a regional qualifies for food stamps!(similar to a flight instructors pay) What a life eh?


Its just not what it used to be......Been around the Corporate world and Commercial liners all my life and am fortunate enough to have a father that has lucked out in his aviation career but only because he had his feet set in place before everything went down the drain.

Son, you need to get out a little more, and stop relying on your "sources" and your daddy to tell you about the industry.

Do you really expect that your VAST experience in "light singles and twins" (from your profile) will get you a direct shot at the majors?

If you really think you're too good to do what it takes to make it in this industry, maybe you should consider another line of work.

LAXSaabdude

 

[pilotyip]

Reflections

We had a new hire class start last week, youngest person is 31 the oldest 39, not one of the persons has ever had a real job in aviation. I would guess they have never made more than about $1500 per month, except the two ex-military guys. All but one have college degrees. I was looking at my Cruise Book from 1968-69, 25 year old Aircraft Commanders, 31 year old second tour dept heads, 37 yr old skipper. We all looked so young. These guys had almost complete careers by the time they reached the age of our new hires. Why would anyone pursue a career in aviation? Because they like flying airplanes, probalby as good a reason as any. Article in the latest AW&ST, in 25 years a new trend will be place, the $300K salary and retirement will be gone, companies like Kelley Services will provide pilots to the airlines, the pilot will not work for the airlines, he will have a contract with the service company. Expand or contract with the ease of a phone call, don't like the service from Kelley, call Joe's contract service. Airlines will be come marketing companies with few employees. Why would anyone want to get into this business? Because you still might make more than a school teacher.

 

[Low and Fast]

laxsaabdude

First of all,

I dont rely on my "daddy" to get me anywhere in this industry. I got where I am on my own and through my own efforts.

Second of all, this is info that i have gathered from the numerous people that I know in the regionals, majors, and corporate aviation. I know that some people enjoy the lifestyle that you can find in the regionals. ITS A FLYING JOB! and we all like to be in the seat of any plane that we can get our hands on.
My comments on the ACADEMYs came from the people whom I know that made their way through them and came out no further ahead of me and spent twice the time and money in the process.
I find it similar to the guys who invest 150,000 on an education at some of these bigger aviation schools and end up with the same jobs as the guy who went to a local HIGHLY respected university and picked up a 4 year degree in something other than Aviation Science (a degree that he/she can fall back on in case of a set back such as medical issues) and spent the rest of their time working on their ratings at a smaller local flight school. Everybody takes different roads and that I know and understand completely. This board is designed for people to voice their opinions and that is simply what I did!!!!

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Re: laxsaabdude

this is info that i have gathered from the numerous people that I know in the regionals, majors, and corporate aviation.

Fine, and they don't have a clue. When you quote clueless sources, it makes you sound clueless.

SOME junior FOs may be eligible for food stamps, but by the time a person upgrades, he can actually make a decent living. Like I say, get out a little more, and form your own opinions.

My comments on the ACADEMYs came from the people whom I know that made their way through them and came out no further ahead of me and spent twice the time and money in the process.

And I agree. I think that it's a waste of time and money. The ads seem to appeal to the prima donna type who want to shortcut the whole process, who don't want to get their hands dirty and actually work for something worthwhile.

Nothing good comes that easy. I have no tolerance for the PFT types, the types who will try to scrounge for worthless "ride along" time in a single pilot turbine aircraft (Alpine Air). These people are a royal pain in the ass to have as FOs. They think they should have upgraded 3 months after they were hired because "their friend" at (fill in the blank) airline is already a captain.

The career is all about the journey, not the destination. I can honestly say I have enjoyed every phase of my career. I came away with some learning experience at all stages. I would never look down at someone who is honestly trying to better themself and get valuable experience along the way.

LAXSaabdude

 

[Low and Fast]

have to agree with laxsabdude

See I totally agree with what you are saying about the guys who are mooching turbine time in a single pilot a/c. I believe in the whole "getting your hands dirty" work ethic and believe that this is the best way to get anywhere in anything you do in life. Life is about the journey and the experiences gained along the way hence the reason I personally chose the Flight Instruction route, to build the much needed time and to gain more knowledge with each and every day that I am with a student.

Not trying to make any enemies just simply stating my opinion.

"Low and Fast"

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I think the FASTEST way to an airline career is through one of the academies where you pay a large amount of money to get a lot of hours and ratings in a short time.

You rack up the hours and ratings, get on at a regional, fly there until whenever, and then move up to a major. This is VERY important. While U R at the regional, get your 4 yr. degree online. THen, you have it when you will begin to apply at the majors.

I think going somewhere like the Delta (formerly Comair) Academy will help U get on at a higher-end regional sooner, where going somewhere else will get you on, typically, at a lower-end regional. THis is important, as if you are at a lower-end regional, like Mesa or Eagle, you will tend to get dissatisfied if U have to stay for a long time until U can make a major. If U R at a higher end regional like Comair/AWAC/Horizon, most people will be satisfied to stay there much longer, maybe even retire there. There's a HUGE difference in regionals.

I was at Trans States, and I liked it.

TSA is a mid-level regional. In your 1st year there, you'll bring home about $25K. As a 1st yr. teacher in Green Bay (with ONLY a 4-yr. degree), the 4th largest school district in WI, you'll make about $24K for the 10-month school year, and if they decide to bring your back for the second year, your pay will go up to about $26K.

If you don't have any money, go military (It is a HUGE waste of time unless you want 2 stay for 20 and get retirement. Many active duty guys fly less than 20 hours/month). If you have some money, but not enough for an academy, a good local FBO is the best, while you live at home with your parents. In GRB U can get a 4-yr. aviation degree through the FBO in association with a university. A lot of FBOs R starting this kind of thing.

IF U want to go 4-yr. AND fly (which I think is a HUGE waste of money and time) go to Riddle or UND. When I was in GFK, UND was better than RIddle. Now, ????

Cliff
MKE

 

[CFI'er]

You Can't Afford The "Academies"

Be very cautious of the loan payment requirements for the large amounts of money the Academies will require. I have listed a website that you can use for an $80,000 loan.

The so-called “Academies” charge too much and you will be in trouble trying to repay the $80,000 or higher loan. Hint…go to the Key Bank website and use the free loan payment calculation program to see if you can afford to repay an $80,000 loan on the First Officer pay of around $22,000 for the first couple of years. Here are the steps to get to the calculator.
www.key.com/educate under the Planning Center, click Education, then Student, and next window, then under Calculators & Tools…. Calculate your student loan repayment.

Insert the $22000 yearly salary and fill in the rest of the blanks. You will see that you cannot afford to repay the student loan without mommy and daddy’s help.

 

[Publishers]

Go

Go to Harvard Business school, make some money, and then buy an airline.

 

[bobbysamd]

Own the airline, leverage it, and don't fly for it

Go to Harvard Business school, make some money, and then buy an airline.

Great suggestion, Pub. It worked for Frank Lorenzo.

 

[cubegirl7]

any other suggestions??

 

[350DRIVER]

Go to medical school and study your a$$ off. The average salary for a Cardiologist in the LA area is decent. The median expected salary for a typical Cardiologist - Invasive in Los Angeles, CA, is $283,351

3 5 0

(If only one could go back in time and start over again)

 

[CFI'er]

Nothing Wrong With Aviation Degree

Don't believe the negative posters that say not to pursue and aviation degree. Students enrolled in an aviation degree program will take the same business courses as a business major.

 

[bobbysamd]

Seconded

Don't believe the negative posters that say not to pursue and aviation degree. Students enrolled in an aviation degree program will take the same business courses as a business major.

I agree with CFI'er. A lot depends on the program, though, because Business Administration, in which I have my degree, is a course in and of itself. You won't get the entirety of the B.S.B.A. program if you major in Aeronautical Sciences.

I like an Aero Science major primarily for the education it provides you as a pilot. You get all your ground school and you study weather, flight physiology, systems, and more. I was amazed at how much knowledge my ERAU students received about systems. That is virtually guaranteed to help you down the road when you go to airline ground school.

ERAU students also took technical writing. As a pilot you have to be able to convey your thoughts articulately on paper to mechanics. It's not enough to say "engine broke." You have to be able to describe a problem clearly. Also, you have to be able write a letter professionally and articulately, and you have to be able to create a resume.

If I had it to do over, I would have just left work and gone to Riddle or someplace and earned a second B.S. in Aeronautical Sciences. I found after I went to work full-time at ERAU there were major gaps in my knowledge that I had to bridge through self-studying. I probably would have learned more, better and faster had I gone to school.

Once more, good luck with your plans.

 

[WhiteCloud]

I don't have a clear path to offer because I've seen many pilots develop a career in many different ways. The bottom line is that you need to have at least a Commercial ME licence and a 1st class medical certficate and 1000 total hours and 100 Multi engine hours for most entry level jobs. The quality of civilian flight training varies greatly. You need to be sure that you really learn to fly well while building this experience. This can be done at the local field if you have a good instructor and can also be done in a college program. You'll get out of either program what you put into it. I suggest you find an approach that suits your personality and budget and be sure you obtain good training.