Best plane for 3-4M

[blzr]

I will not argue with that. So, would you agree best airplane for under 4 Mil?

nope, till the good 'ole Sabre-65. Goes farther than the falcon-10, easier to maintain than the Falcon-20, great fuel economy, payload, and range. MTX isn't so bad even with fewer parts, because it was ORIGINALLY built to last.

The falcons are great, but waaayyyy too much "overengineering" by the Frogs and Super expensive to maintain. Avmats in SUS is overrun by old 10's and 20's trying to stay airworthy.

If interested in a good -65, there's one in out hangar for sale. $1.8-$2.2 mil probably. anyone need info, P.M. me.

 

[irapilot]

I would look carefully at the Premier's range and payload issues - 1300 miles in ferry mode maybe. I would only consider a 1A - the "lift dump" system on the older one was automatic and needed all three tires to be on the ground before it deployed itself, now the pilot can manually deploy. Also the 1A has new brakes that are much improved and a much quieter cabin.

The Vref is a bit high and it needs a longer distance for landing than the equivalent Citations – but it is faster too. The Pro Line 21 is pretty nice too.

Pretty neat aircraft – for what it is and what mission it fulfills. Not pretty. Also out of the price range of this thread..

 

[ultrarunner]

Citation Bravo can be had for the range you are talking (97 to 00 or so) 395 kts, single pilot (with waiver)...

Do your research if you're considering a C550/560 and operating it with a single-pilot waiver.

I think, but am not certain, that if you operate any of the part25 cert. airplanes on a SP waiver, you are restricted to 12,500 lbs.

Cessna also delivered part 23 versions, designated by C551, etc..and these aircraft may also have been restricted to 12,500 lbs.

The primary difference in the ability to operate one SP is that you do NOT need a waiver to fly the SP'd airplanes as they were Part 23 birds. All you need is a C500 type, and of course your underwriters blessing.

The waivers come into play if you want to operate the Part 25 birds. But you need to check on the weight issue that I mentioned above. That can be limiting if you want to fill it with seats and fly a thousand miles or so. As those airplanes have BOW's of at least 8500 lbs, in the case of 550's. You put 1200 lbs in the cabin and that leaves room for 2800 lbs of fuel to stay under 12.5.

Good luck.

 

[G100driver]

Both the Sabre and the Falcon 10 were great airplane's in the 70's and early 80's.

Get something as modern as you can afford that is still supported by the OEM. Anything short of that you are going to get nothing but headache's until you cannot afford to operate it. More restrictive regs are coming and these aircraft are not equipt to handle the up and coming BS.

The argument about Sabre's this, Falcon's that and Westwind's bla bla bla, is like listening to the accolades of used condom's.

 

[blzr]

Hey, used condoms are GREAT!!!

 

[AerroMatt]

The argument about Sabre's this, Falcon's that and Westwind's bla bla bla, is like listening to the accolades of used condom's.

LMAO!!! I oughtta make this my new signature line!

 

[climbhappy]

unless your mission is to drop supplies deep in the jungles of south america , why would all this talk about King airs and the unimproved strip really matter. granted some runways in the bahamas and caribbean suck. but consider the number of times you mission calls for that.

i say throw it out as a parameter and get the stinkin jet. why would a guy with that kind of money give a crap about unpaved strips when he can haul ass to his business deal while listening to a nice jet engine rather than a noisy turboprop.

as far as turboprops and their merits, i'd take an executive configured jetstream 32 with a six foot cabin and double club for eight over an overpriced,overated king air every time. passenger comfort is the biggest thing to consider. you can take a dump in private in a jetstream.

 

[Jurasic jets]

How about a Sabre 65, M0.80 normally an 8 place interior, larger cabin than a hawker 400 (oops I mean beechjet 400) and a citation II +5 hours of range stage 3 compliant. Might even have an APU.

 

[Lead Sled]

How about a Sabre 65, M0.80 normally an 8 place interior, larger cabin than a hawker 400 (oops I mean beechjet 400) and a citation II +5 hours of range stage 3 compliant. Might even have an APU.

When you start talking about an older, out of production "mid-size" jet operated by a rookie jet pilots you had better get your insurance broker involved in the conversation before you get your hopes up. FWIW, for all of you who are proponents of larger aircraft (including myself - the Classic Astra) just remember newer is almost always better than older regardless of the make and model. When it comes to maintenance, you need to carefully consider your maintenance budget. Older airplanes, regardless of their condition need more maintenance. Plan and budget accordingly.

LS

 

[Legacy_lad]

Absolute Best Aircraft to choose

All the above posts focus on the bosses needs........Hmmm!

You could always just think about yourself.

1000nm and $3-4million.

Only one choice then. Gotta be an ATG Javelin http://www.avtechgroup.com/

Space for the boss and a briefcase. No end of fun flying it.

be brave, recommend this at the end of the list and he/she may even be tempted. Certainly will make an impression upon arrival.

 

[Headwind]

When you start talking about an older, out of production "mid-size" jet operated by a rookie jet pilots you had better get your insurance broker involved in the conversation before you get your hopes up. FWIW, for all of you who are proponents of larger aircraft (including myself - the Classic Astra) just remember newer is almost always better than older regardless of the make and model. When it comes to maintenance, you need to carefully consider your maintenance budget. Older airplanes, regardless of their condition need more maintenance. Plan and budget accordingly.

LS

The Sabre 65 is a little older than the Classic Astra, all built in 1980 & 1981. The company, Sabreliner Corporation, is still in business and giving excellent support. The aircraft is no more out of production than the Astra, Citation II,or III, Lear 55, Hawker 800-A, etc.
Our Sabre cost no more for maintenance or operations than our Citation of the same year model.
I agree that newer is better with more up front money and less operations money.
Looking at the numbers the Astra is the only aircraft in this class that will perform with the Sabre 65. It's a little newer, but is it worth two times more?
HEADWIND

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Do your research if you're considering a C550/560 and operating it with a single-pilot waiver.

I think, but am not certain, that if you operate any of the part25 cert. airplanes on a SP waiver, you are restricted to 12,500 lbs.

Cessna also delivered part 23 versions, designated by C551, etc..and these aircraft may also have been restricted to 12,500 lbs.

The primary difference in the ability to operate one SP is that you do NOT need a waiver to fly the SP'd airplanes as they were Part 23 birds. All you need is a C500 type, and of course your underwriters blessing.

The waivers come into play if you want to operate the Part 25 birds. But you need to check on the weight issue that I mentioned above. That can be limiting if you want to fill it with seats and fly a thousand miles or so. As those airplanes have BOW's of at least 8500 lbs, in the case of 550's. You put 1200 lbs in the cabin and that leaves room for 2800 lbs of fuel to stay under 12.5.

Good luck.

There is no weight restriction on the waivers. What you are confused about is the early days of the 551 SP, before the FAA gave their blessing to the entire 550/560 (Not XL)fleet for the waiver.

There is maybe 20 citations left in the country that has this restriction. ALL Bravos, Ultras, and Encores can run SP with zero restrictions to their performance. The only restriction is to the pilot having to go on o2 100% of the time above FL350.

95% of all 500 series Citations run restriction free under the waiver. If you have the TT the insurance is negligable, however most carriers cap the liability at 100 million for sp ops and some at 50 mill.

In the case of the Bravo flew on the waiver the insurance was an extra $2000 a year over two pilot insurance cost.

 

[hawkerjet]

Headwind, I'm not sure if I'm with you on this. First, the Sabre is a great airplane, however the Astra was last produced in 2003. I believe (G100) somewhere around serial # 146. Gulfstream is the manufacturer and maintenance support also by Gulfstream which is one of the best support manufacturers. Are you confusing the Westwind with the classic astra? Classic astra is just a steam gage version with no winglets. Since these aircraft are older, the aircraft support for the astra willbe far superior than a secondary company could offer

 

[barracuda]

westwind or astra. solid. cheap.

 

[jrbevis]

Sabre 65

2.5$$(at the most)
better then any of the other jets listed

 

[psysicx]

Would you take a Sabre to Hawaii?

 

[jrbevis]

Headwind, I'm not sure if I'm with you on this. First, the Sabre is a great airplane, however the Astra was last produced in 2003. I believe (G100) somewhere around serial # 146. Gulfstream is the manufacturer and maintenance support also by Gulfstream which is one of the best support manufacturers. Are you confusing the Westwind with the classic astra? Classic astra is just a steam gage version with no winglets. Since these aircraft are older, the aircraft support for the astra willbe far superior than a secondary company could offer

2003 G100 doesnt fit the budget.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I have a 2002 Bravo for sale with 1300 TTAF and about 995 Landings...to be delivered with a fresh I-V from Wichita...no damage history. $4.35m

 

[ultrarunner]

Would you take a Sabre to Hawaii?

I'm always intrigued by this question....

You either have an airplane to complete an 'over water flight' without a wet foot print or with a wet foot print.

Where The Fuk is the ambiguity????

You don't go if you get wet. Simple as that. Or am I missing something?

Do 121 operators operate "wet".????

 

[Swass]

Wasn't there a conversion company for older model Lears? I can't remember the name but the cost was low and you ended up with a pretty slick ride. Maybe it was SpiritLear or something like that.