Best flight schools?

[bobbysamd]

Experience

Originally posted by SDdriver
Hey Bobbysamd,

Do you think though that getting hired at a regional at 300hrs is a good thing? I mean sure it is remarkable to be flying an RJ at 300hrs, but don't you think that this pilot would be denied a lot of really good experience by going that route? I mean do you think a 300hr pilot is really ready for a complex Jet at 300hrs . . .

(emphasis added)

I dunno. I have felt that the MAPD program et al is great because it put people in a 1900 and not jets.

I qualify my next comment by saying that I would have liked nothing better than to captain a 1900. Having said that, isn't a 1900 essentially an overgrown King Air which is an overgrown Baron which is a twin-engined Bonanza? I hope you see my point. The Mesa program was good because it led logically to the 1900. I don't believe a 1900 that hard an airplane to fly compared to other airplanes in its category. and is similar to flying the above-mentioned derivative ancestral recips. An airplane that a 300-hour pilot could fly competently. On the other hand, jets?? A jet could be a lot of airplane for someone with 1000 hours, let alone 300 hours.

Having said that, I recall from my FSI days the Asiana contract program. Asiana is a Korean airline. It sent zero timers to FSI for training, the last part of which, just six months later, was Citation jet training. So much for that argument, though an RJ might be more airplane than a Citation.

It can be argued, legitimately, that 300 hours of the proper training is enough to go to work on the line. My Alitalia guys at FSI would have had about that amount of experience - maybe a little more - before being FOs on the DC-9. But before that they would have received a large amount of enroute experience in the Cheyennes.

I will never forget, I had an FO one time that was a Mesa grad, first job he gets is flying a Transport size turbo prop with me . . . . [H]is problem was when we were real world flying. He couldn't hardly handle flying into a congested airport and dealing with modified procedures such as 200kts to the marker and then shoot the ILS to mins. He had only been taught specific profiles and when those profiles wern't there he was lost, when it didn't work out like back at Mesa under training conditions he couldn't hack it . . . . When I would get an FO that had flown checks in a 210, or instructed in multi and singles, or towed banners or flew traffic, they always had a better sense of how to handle problems in REAL life flying. Just wanted to know what you think, I always respect your views.

I appreciate that, my friend.

Yes, your FO was plenty green at 300 hours and very well would need your help, but not forever. He/she would be sopping up experience on every leg and hopefully would be learning from your excellent example. Pretty soon his/her 300 hours is now 1000 hours, with 700 of that being line experience. Put someone like me next to you and I, too, with 4565 hours, would be green in terms of line flying and perhaps not as good of a sponge. Not for lack of willingness but because of ingrained habits. Experience is the best teacher, but everyone was new at one time. Read Ernest Gann in Fate is the Hunter. If he is to be believed, it sounds like he could barely land a DC-2 during his early days. He learned.

 

[SDdriver]

Thanks for the post Bobby..I agree with you in a lot of ways..I mean in all honesty, that FO did get better and better as time went on, it wasn't so much that he couldn't handle the plane, it was that at 300hrs it was tough on him dealing with flying the line and all that goes along with it. The complexity of the airplane just made it so much harder on him.

I remember early in my career, the first time I got real life experience was when I would ride right seat in a baron and just watch, learning from watching the other guy handle the odd clearences and unusual request by ATC. After seeing a lot of that, I found myself in the left seat with him in the right seat and remembering how he did it, and it seemed easier because the plane was not to complex for my level and I had first hand knowledge of seeing real line flying. Then moving to the king air, and metro, I was lost again in the complexity of the plane, but the real line experience before kinda nulled out the difficulties of handleing the plane.

I do agree that the 1900 is just a big King Air, not to difficult to fly if you have flown king airs. Lots of the same qualities.

I don't know, I just sometimes picture this 300hr guy in the right seat and the CAptain not being able to fly for some reason and this kid having to take this plane and bring it in full of PAXs that are scared to death, and maybe an engine is out, or like one of my experiences having a windscreen penetrated by a duck that missed my head by a few inches, having 3degree below zero wind rushing in your face and having to land the thing cause your FO can't see out of his windscreen cause he had one hit dead center and covered the screen with guts and blood, even though that was an extreme circumstance (which really did happen to me Actually 9 duck strikes at once) it does happen, I am just happy that I was confident in the airplane and had skills that were honed by the help of experienced pilots in planes that I could handle, so when I got to a large complex airplane I was ready for anything. Cause truth be told, Captain or FO, when it comes down to it, you better be able to handle anything, no matter how crazy it is and the only thing that can get you through is good training and experience.
Having lost engines, eletrical, and other less serious things happen in my early days flying singles and light twins, helped me when I was in a large plane and bad things happened. Without those experiences Who knows?

I do see your point though, and I do really appreciate your comments on the subject, Thanks again for posting a reply for me..

SD

 

[stillaboo]

It's a bird, it's a plane, it's SPLAT

I know a 300 hour 'wonder-pilot' who, at 125 TT, lost his windshield to a birdstrike near SLC. He alerted ATC to the condition, and ended the flight un-eventfully, a bit of a bent-up prop and an un-expectedly short flight not withstanding.

Low timers can hit birds too, ya' know!

-Boo!

 

[SDdriver]

That was my exact point. I am sure the fact that him being in an airplane he could handle well with his experience helped save his life, as it did mine and my crew. Imagine if same guy was in a Crj with 50 paxs in the back. Do you think the result would have been the same? Who knows maybe maybe not, but I think the odds would be well against it.
THanks for that story though, you are so right, birds don't discriminate.

SD

 

[Timebuilder]

He wants to go to a respectable, well known place.

I think the responses you got at the top of this thread just might have been due to your use of the word respectable.

I can't think of any in that category, either.

 

[JJG]

By far the best flight school is the United States Military. The training offered by the Air Force, Navy, and Army are top notch. If the military is not something your friend has considered here is my opinion. If you friend has already graduated college, MAPD and Embry Riddle may not be for him. These are degree programs with extra costs associated for credit hours and fees. My suggestion would be to spend the summer at a local FBO earning his Private Pilot. This will get his feet wet so to speak, learn about aviation, checkrides, flight instruction, and his aptitude. I had students at colleges I used to teach at discover after a few lessons that flying is not for them, after committing large amounts of money to an aviation school. I had one student who was actually doing very well, say that after he completed his checkride he never wanted to fly again, and was changing majors. It one thing to see a 757 fly by and say "I want to do that" versus getting knocked around in a Cessna 150 on a 120 degree day.
After interviewing with airlines and being in the flying biz for 15 years airlines care about one thing, multi-engine time. Whatever you have for mulit time they want more, so go somewhere where you will get the most multi time like ALL ATP's or other schools out there. If you are flying in an 172 RG or Piper Arrow for your commercial you are wasting time and money. Save those planes for the CFI rating. I can't beleive guys will go through an entire commercial/instrument syllabus without one hour of multi time. Not to mention the price difference between a 172 RG and a Seminole or Duchess can be as little as $30.00 an hour. In fact you can probably find a school with a Piper Apache that rents for less than a new Cessna 172. Your friend should find a school that puts him in a multi right after he finishes his Private.

 

[DTWFO]

Tell him to look at Delta Connection Academy (AKA Comair Academy) in Sanford Florida. They will pay for you to fly down there on Delta or Comair to look at it. It's expensive, but among the very best training there is to have.


http://www.deltaconnectionacademy.com

 

[JimNtexas]

I have a newphew who was 3/4 of the way through Comair on 9/11. He finished and has his ratings, but has had a pretty hard time getting a flying job.

I thought at the time, and still do, that he'd have been better off to go to All ATPs. He would have paid less and had much more multi-time at the end of it.

 

[SDdriver]

I kinda agree with the above poster, like I said in one of my previous post, Flight schools are great, but when you really boil it down to the basics, we all end up with the same thing, a private, comm, inst, multi, maybe cfi and such.

Unless of course you go to ERAU and alike, then you get a degree, but you can go to a very good state school pay half as much and get a 4yr degree in something you can fall back on if aviation goes bust, like now and in the early 90's. When it comes to the flying, we all wind up with the same ratings, it is just a fact of paying 50,000 for them or 15,000.

I got my ratings over 10yrs ago, so yes it was cheaper back then due to insurance being a lot less, but I think I only paid about 10 or maybe 11,000 doallrs for my private, comm, inst, and multi. Like I said before, I have never been asked, in one of my many flying jobs I have had, where I got my ratings. So it is up to you really on how much you want to spend and how much faith you put into a flight school like Comair, or FSI, giving you an edge over someone that has the exact same ratings as you, but did it at a local FBO. Just food for thought.

SD

 

[Chunk]

Hope he has 15K to spend on a private, eh JediInane?