Being a CFI again at the Regionals.

[5ontheglide]

How many Captains at the regionals feel like they are flight instructors again?

Nothing against the FOs, but most new hires are missing out on a lot...

New thread..... how many FO's at the regionals feel like they are flight instructors again? Nothing angainst Captains, but most initial upgrades are missing out on a lot ....of common sense.

Everybody new to an airplane usually checks their brain at the door for the first few hours. I'm in no way condoning PFT or other fast tracks, but seriously - everybody needs some time to get used to the real thing reguardless of their background.

 

[SkiDawg]

I see alot of lowtime FO bashing ehre and I think alot of it is really from mildly ticked off people that are annoyed that some of these young guys got opportunities that they never did (rightly ticked off that is). But seriously go get pissed at the company that hired them not the indivudal pilot.



This is right on! Be upset with the system, or the training dept. To think that most Capts are God's gift to aviation, and most FO's are weak b/c of this or that is ridiculous!

 

[SkiDawg]

Besides, pilots in the military fly jets with low time. What's the difference? It's the individual, not the seat!!!!!!!!!

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Besides, pilots in the military fly jets with low time. What's the difference? It's the individual, not the seat!!!!!!!!!

A military pilot did not com from a mom and pop operation. (for starters) . Being a CFI teaches you people skills as well. The worst IOE I ever endured was from an A---ho-e who had no concept of the fundamentals of instructing. BTW he was a former military test pilot.

That being said you may or may not be "Super Pilot" at 300 hours. I don't really care- If you haven't taught you are more likely to be a real pain in the A#% to work with in a 2 crew enviroment.

 

[belchfire]

If you are required to send written evaluations of your FO's by your company you are covered.

I was never a flight instructor till I upgraded at my first 121 job.

I hope I'm doing okay now...someone is probably evaluating me...shhhhhhh!

 

[BCpilot81]

I think that everyone needs to back off a second and realize what he's saying. I do not think that any crewmember regardless of position should ever anticipate not learning at least one thing from the other. I have about 1600/350 and I admit to mistakes daily, and understand the challenge of always learning, I have also come to expect that many times a helpful hand and the added redundancy of having two of us in front has seem to have gone to new heights when I hear some stories about other people that have only 350 hours total time!!!! There has to be a line drawn where advice is no longer advice and is in fact primary flight instruction. We all have the same dream and goals and I hope everyone one of us get there, I really and sincerely do, but I also believe in old fashioned paying your dues and that there is a lot to be said for experience.

 

[belchfire]

BC you are exactly right. I learned alot from my FO's-all were younger and had been through their initial training much more recently than I had. Most people have slightly different skill sets. Blending that into a good crew is another challenge new CA's face and it is something that has to be learned and sometimes is advanced by discussions over a few beverages away from the plane.

After several years in the left seat I find myself back in the right seat of a far different aircraft doing a completely different kind of flying. The simularities end in that they were both fixed wing machines.

I make sure that the guys in the left seat know that I am new and where I came from and that I have alot to learn yet. So far they seem to appreciate the candor.

Some of the young CA's at my previous job seemed to have forgotten that they once were the new guy and have no recollection of the grief and grey hairs they precipitated when they were new FO's...it's a big transition and needs to be taken seriously. So is coming out of the right seat of a 172 being PIC and into the right seat being gear and radio monkey...as does coming out of that Baron hauling checks and doing everything by yourself to being in SIC.

Bottom line is that we all have to be willing to learn.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

It all depends on the persons attitude I think...

I have flown with some low time guys who handle the airplane great and learn very fast. They seem to understand that they have little practical experience and want to soak up all they can.

Then there are the others that we all complain about...

I fly with some very high time FO's who are lazy, terrible pilots who I wouldn't trust to use a blender much less fly an airplane.

Then of course there is the a majority, who are competant, dedicated professionals who are a pleasure to fly with. I even (God forbid) learn from them from time to time!

Time is just a number. It is all about attitude.

 

[pilotbrain]

How many Captains at the regionals feel like they are flight instructors again?

Nothing against the FOs, but most new hires are missing out on a lot at these fast tracks.

Getting a bunch of time in a sim at at a fast-track buy a job school doesn't give these pilots what they really need. I see these guys with less than 1,000 hours who can't even do a crosswind landing right. This is after having a few hundred hours in the CRJ.

I know not all fit this profile but I am finding the lower the TT gets the more I have to work.[/quote

Ive flown with this guy and believe me.....he does know everything.

When I grow up....i wanna be just like him

 

[MESAhater]

Just remember this is not the military where we upgrade because of our skill. We upgrade because length of service i.e. seniority-sure you pass a checkride, but we can all study for that. Most chekcrides for your type are pretty similar to the ride you took as an FO. No captain is above anyone JUST because he is a captain. Being a captain just means that they have been at your company longer. Some of us are good and some of us are weak...........anyways we are still just a bunch of regional pilots flying our little jets around for little wages constantly complaining about pay/contracts/ and of course some other regional that "WE" feel is bringing down the industry.......no one is exempt...Remember we are all out there trying to do the same job! I complain to I hate what MESA stands for, not their pilots, just the company and of course JO-FUC#%er!!

 

[COOPERVANE]

I think if we were flying md-88's or 737-200's with 2000 tt captains and 300 hour Fo's planes WOULD be falling out of the sky.

An RJ/ERJ is a ridiculously easy plane to fly. An ape could do it as long as nothing goes wrong. A very false sense of super-skills

But lose an FMS/engine/pressurization and it's goat roping time and frozen silence from the right seat with 300 hour fast track boy.

 

[PCL_128]

I think if we were flying md-88's or 737-200's with 2000 tt captains and 300 hour Fo's planes WOULD be falling out of the sky.

An RJ/ERJ is a ridiculously easy plane to fly. An ape could do it as long as nothing goes wrong. A very false sense of super-skills

But lose an FMS/engine/pressurization and it's goat roping time and frozen silence from the right seat with 300 hour fast track boy.

This is ridiculous. I ride up front on an MD-88 jumpseat almost weekly, and I really don't see any difference whatsoever in the job they do. It's still an airplane with an FMS, an autopilot, and lots of other automation. This idea that other modern airplanes are harder to fly than an RJ is a fantasy.

As for your concern that a lost FMS is some sort of catastrophy waiting to happen, that's equally ridiculous. I've flown many an RJ with deferred autopilot, FMS, pressurization, engine speed control, you name it. The newbies have no trouble handling it.

 

[highnpressurize]

It all depends on the persons attitude I think...

I have flown with some low time guys who handle the airplane great and learn very fast. They seem to understand that they have little practical experience and want to soak up all they can.

Then there are the others that we all complain about...

I fly with some very high time FO's who are lazy, terrible pilots who I wouldn't trust to use a blender much less fly an airplane.

Then of course there is the a majority, who are competant, dedicated professionals who are a pleasure to fly with. I even (God forbid) learn from them from time to time!

Time is just a number. It is all about attitude.

I agree. I've had a civilian 700hr. F.O. Out-Land me all day, and a 7500 hour retired Lt. Cmdr. preplex and scare the heck out of me the next. I believe that regardless of the aircraft, or which seat your in, it comes down to who flies. The pilot or the airplane.

 

[Crash Pad]

Oh my... So "Mr FSDO" might be wrong in his assessment?

 

[aussiefly]

I think if we were flying md-88's or 737-200's with 2000 tt captains and 300 hour Fo's planes WOULD be falling out of the sky.

An RJ/ERJ is a ridiculously easy plane to fly. An ape could do it as long as nothing goes wrong. A very false sense of super-skills

But lose an FMS/engine/pressurization and it's goat roping time and frozen silence from the right seat with 300 hour fast track boy.

If you really believe this to be true maybe you should ask some of the Qantas pilots or the Cathay cadets how it works. Their safety records are excellent and they in many cases take people from cadet right through to left seat on a large aircraft.

RJ, 737, 747, DC10.....they can all kill you if your not paying attention. It all really comes down to attitude.

 

[cynic]

ummmm.... hmmmm.....

Well you get what you pay for in captains and FOs

Smart people don't work for those wages. Smacktards do. It is what it is and its not going to get better

 

[FreightNazi]

Well you get what you pay for in captains and FOs

Smart people don't work for those wages. Smacktards do. It is what it is and its not going to get better

Best statement ever! I'm glad to say that I never was and never will be a commuter/regional pilot!

 

[XJohXJ]

Said it before....I'll say it again...

When I was in the right seat, all the guys in the left seat were buttholes.

Funny how, now all the guys in the right seat are buttholes.

Now it's time to say something GOOD about Mesaba, for a change. The pilot group is great. It's just a job, after all. You show up, do your part, everyone is happy. (Except, of course, when we think about what a lousy, corrupt management team we have!!)

 

[Motive Flow]

Best statement ever! I'm glad to say that I never was and never will be a commuter/regional pilot!

And yet you're surfing a Regional Airline thread. What a hypocrite! (or a closet wannabe)

 

[JohnnyP]

...

Best statement ever! I'm glad to say that I never was and never will be a commuter/regional pilot!

You come off as being very scared and insecure. Yea, what are you doing in the "commuter" section anyway?

 

[Corbon]

Sounds like the typical arrogant Lear pilot attitude I experienced when working at an FBO. If you're not flying some kind of a bizjet, you're beneath them. And here, just like in the real world, they have to make sure they go out of their way to let us know that.

 

[SkiDawg]

qouted
I agree. I've had a civilian 700hr. F.O. Out-Land me all day, and a 7500 hour retired Lt. Cmdr. preplex and scare the heck out of me the next. I believe that regardless of the aircraft, or which seat your in, it comes down to who flies. The pilot or the airplane.


Quoted
If you really believe this to be true maybe you should ask some of the Qantas pilots or the Cathay cadets how it works. Their safety records are excellent and they in many cases take people from cadet right through to left seat on a large aircraft.

RJ, 737, 747, DC10.....they can all kill you if your not paying attention. It all really comes down to attitude.




2 best responses, nuff said!!!!!!!!

 

[V1cutsrfun]

To be honest on the line I see the FO's can handle the A/C in IMC doing approaches. The company does a good job in the Sim getting them ready for that.

Where I see the difficulty is general IFR procedures, radio calls, multi tasking, paperwork, and doing visual approaches. And thinking about the comfort and considerations of the passengers.

The 20 hours of IOE helps...if the IOE Captian cares....and then about 200 hours in the aircraft.

It is like instructing...but it gets difficult if the FO has an attitude!

Roger thatuke:

 

[zawillif]

There are good Captains and bad Captains. There are good FOs and bad FOs. As people get more time they will get better until they reach their personal peak.

Another thing. If you are sick of "kids" with "no time" and instructing them with your 10,000 hours, then GET OUT and go to a major where everyone has some turbine-PIC. Lets not forget you are at a regional. This is where people start out with aspirations of moving on once they get their time.

 

[cynic]

This is where people start out with aspirations of moving on once they get their time.

ROTFLMAO

Really

Gee... I wonder if major salaries will come down to regional levels. Maybe.... just maybe. Perhaps there is some sort of trend.

 

[ReverseSensing]

News Flash: You are not as good of a pilot as you think you are!

If I hear that one more time, I'm gonna poop my pants!

 

[Trogdor]

Well you get what you pay for in captains and FOs

Smart people don't work for those wages. Smacktards do. It is what it is and its not going to get better

So by your assertion, pilots at SkyWest are better than pilots at Colgan just because they get paid more? Before you answer, remember that alot of these guys are hand flying aircraft all day long, at lower altitudes, in the weather, while others punch an autopilot and fly above the weather.

 

[cynic]

So by your assertion, pilots at SkyWest are better than pilots at Colgan just because they get paid more? Before you answer, remember that alot of these guys are hand flying aircraft all day long, at lower altitudes, in the weather, while others punch an autopilot and fly above the weather.

Oh there are always exceptions. The most expensive car isn't always the best; the most expensive wine isn't always the finest. But on average, yes, you get what you pay for with people just like everything.

Take the average IQ of all physicians and the average IQ of all fast food cooks and I think you will see a relationship. I know, I know, there are dumb doctors and super genius fast food cooks, but the relationship is still there for the vast majority of people. People are willing to pay for the finest when it comes to brain surgery and when it comes to frying a burger… welll…..

So yeah, I do believe that relationship between pay and quality applies to pilots as well. Walk through any big terminal and look at the regional pilots with their stained shirts, greasy fast food fingers and generally frumpy appearance and compare them to a delta captain who is paid significantly more. You bet there is a difference and the sad fact is, the industry is moving towards low quality low paid personnel. Smacktards as I like to call them.

It just is what it is.

 

[zawillif]

ROTFLMAO

Really

Gee... I wonder if major salaries will come down to regional levels. Maybe.... just maybe. Perhaps there is some sort of trend.

Uh, I don't even know what you're saying. Last I checked a delta 6 year FO on the lowest scale makes $83/hr, and thats after all the concessions. You're telling me you'd rather stay at a regional for the rest of your life and get a raise from $63 to maybe $70? That's cool I guess, one more open spot for me for when I get the hell out of here.

 

[cynic]

Uh, I don't even know what you're saying. Last I checked a delta 6 year FO on the lowest scale makes $83/hr, and thats after all the concessions. You're telling me you'd rather stay at a regional for the rest of your life and get a raise from $63 to maybe $70? That's cool I guess, one more open spot for me for when I get the hell out of here.

I know you don't. Its ok. Just keep working hard and I'm sure there is going to be a big fat brass ring at a major airline in the end. Really. There is.