Becoming a pilot with an arrest...

zkmayo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Posts
342
Total Time
9000+
Sean,

An additional problem here is that you are competing for a job with a ton of guys that dont have anything on their record. In most, but not all airlines eyes, a blemish like that is enough to disqualify you bc the other competitive candidates dont have that "baggage." Im not saying that all companies would do this, but some will. You may find a company out there that is more understanding/humane in its background checks. Whatever the case, as its been said before, be honest in all apps and interviews.

It's your record, and its your right and responsibility to make sure its accurate. I would do everything possible to find out exactly what your record says on it and get a copy. Get a letter from the judge maybe that explains what exactly happened legally...

Good luck
 

FN FAL

Freight Dawgs Rule
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Posts
8,573
Total Time
7,000+
zkmayo said:
Sean,

An additional problem here is that you are competing for a job with a ton of guys that dont have anything on their record. In most, but not all airlines eyes, a blemish like that is enough to disqualify you bc the other competitive candidates dont have that "baggage." Im not saying that all companies would do this, but some will. You may find a company out there that is more understanding/humane in its background checks. Whatever the case, as its been said before, be honest in all apps and interviews.

It's your record, and its your right and responsibility to make sure its accurate. I would do everything possible to find out exactly what your record says on it and get a copy. Get a letter from the judge maybe that explains what exactly happened legally...

Good luck
I agree with you ZK, but as we all know, "kids will be kids".

I would consider all those without blemishes as "Unknown Quantities". Consider the Comair guy that was highlighted in the news with bandage around his head after breaking into a stadium's club room. He got tackled by the cops and wound up in the news with a big "towel head" bandange on his head.

I bet he had a "clean record" when he got hired.
 

Gulfstream 200

Database Expert
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Posts
4,574
Total Time
18,550
Icelandair said:
That is f'ing gay that you would even get in trouble for using a cap gun anyway. What are the gun control second amendment hating nuts going to do next, want to outlaw them too?

cap guns look identical to real guns these days. They are not little square toys with strips of caps hanging out of them anymore. same for air guns and paintball guns.

If I was a cop and you point one at me, Im not going to take the time to tell the difference - Im just going to kill you.

Then your family will sue me, the city, the manufacturer, and whoever else they can.

when you reach the age the original poster was when he did this stupid prank you should know better.

Toy guns are toys to 6 year olds, not 16yr olds.
 

SeanAucoin

Active member
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Posts
37
Total Time
440
hey Zk and FN atleast you guys understand. some people just go straight for the "you wont be able to get a job" answer I talked with kathy and she is going to run a background check and see what it comes up as. I maen I think when you really look at it, if I explained it. you'd probally get a chuckle out of it. I know the judge did..
 

English

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
3,374
Total Time
1
Have Kathy help you with your delivery, then, because it didn't come across the way I think you intended it.
 

FN FAL

Freight Dawgs Rule
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Posts
8,573
Total Time
7,000+
SeanAucoin said:
hey Zk and FN atleast you guys understand. some people just go straight for the "you wont be able to get a job" answer I talked with kathy and she is going to run a background check and see what it comes up as. I maen I think when you really look at it, if I explained it. you'd probally get a chuckle out of it. I know the judge did..
You don't have herpes with this thing...but to find the real answer, you're going to need professional help.

I'd spend the money, if I were you.
 

zkmayo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Posts
342
Total Time
9000+
FN FAL said:
I agree with you ZK, but as we all know, "kids will be kids".
.

Amen, brother. I look back at some of the stuff I did and I amazed I never got arrested. Like someone said before, we all screwed around, we just never got caught.

"You ever convicted of a felony?"
"Convicted? No, never convicted."
--Stripes
 

FN FAL

Freight Dawgs Rule
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Posts
8,573
Total Time
7,000+
zkmayo said:
Amen, brother. I look back at some of the stuff I did and I amazed I never got arrested. Like someone said before, we all screwed around, we just never got caught.

"You ever convicted of a felony?"
"Convicted? No, never convicted."
--Stripes
Hysteria...go figure. Its o.k. to drive down a state highway with five feet separating fender to fender at a closing rate of 120 miles an hour, but some dumb kid buzz jobs his high school and it becomes a Deparment of Homeland Security issue. We're doomed as a society.
 

SeanAucoin

Active member
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Posts
37
Total Time
440
Yea society these days is pretty crazy compared to what my uncles and family and friends parent could get away with back in the day.

Can I just get a few straight answers...is it worth my time to go through the training to become an airline pilot?

Sean
 

FN FAL

Freight Dawgs Rule
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Posts
8,573
Total Time
7,000+
SeanAucoin said:
Yea society these days is pretty crazy compared to what my uncles and family and friends parent could get away with back in the day.

Can I just get a few straight answers...is it worth my time to go through the training to become an airline pilot?

Sean
In three words or less, YEA! Get it on brother!
 

zkmayo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Posts
342
Total Time
9000+
SeanAucoin said:
Yea society these days is pretty crazy compared to what my uncles and family and friends parent could get away with back in the day.

Can I just get a few straight answers...is it worth my time to go through the training to become an airline pilot?

Sean

If your absolutely committed to making the worst career decision possible which many of us on here did and probably regret it when its too late to do most anything else, Id say by all means go for it.

But seriously. My advice, fly as a hobby but continue towards an education with an eye towards a "real job." Then if you must, persue flying. By then all the questions you have as hopefully the industry will be much clearer/healthier.
 

Whiskey Tango

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2004
Posts
148
Total Time
3400
It sounds like you plea bargained down to a misdemeanor. You did the community service as a punishment for your conviction on a reduced charge. Like others have said, if you were not convicted of something you would not have had any punishment. You do not however have any felony convictions on your record. Here is the TSA regulations regarding this stuff. All of these crimes are disqualifying

In accordance with Transportation Security Regulation (TSR) 49 CFR, all employees that are granted unescorted access to a Security Identification Display Area (SIDA) and employees that have access to aircraft must undergo a fingerprint based Criminal History Record Check (CHRC). The following is a list of disqualifying crimes:


  1. Forgery of certificates, false marking of aircraft and other aircraft registration violation; 49 U.S.C 46306.
  2. Interference with air navigation; 49 U.S.C.46308.
  3. Improper transportation of a hazardous material; 49 U.S.C. 46312.
  4. Aircraft piracy; 49 U.S.C 46502 .
  5. Interference with flight crew members or flight attendants; 49 U.S.C 46504.
  6. Commission of certain crimes aboard aircraft in flight; 49 U.S.C.46506.
  7. Carrying a weapon or explosive aboard aircraft ; 49 U.S.C. 46505.
  8. Conveying false information and threats ; 49 U.S.C. 46507.
  9. Aircraft piracy outside the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States; 49 U.S.C 46402 (b).
  10. Lighting violations involving transporting controlled substances; 49 U.S.C.46315.
  11. Unlawful entry into an aircraft or airport area that serves air carriers or foreign carriers contrary to established security requirements; 49 U.S.C. 46314.
  12. Destruction of an aircraft or aircraft facility; 18 U.S.C 32 .
  13. Murder.
  14. Assault with intent to murder.
  15. Espionage.
  16. Sedition.
  17. Kidnapping or hostage taking.
  18. Treason.
  19. Rape or aggravated sexual abuse.
  20. Unlawful possession, use, sale, distribution, or manufacture or an explosive or weapon.
  21. Extortion.
  22. Armed or felony unarmed robbery.
  23. Distribution of or intent to distribute a controlled substance.
  24. Felony arson.
  25. Felony involving a threat.
  26. Felony involving willful destruction of property .
  27. Felony involving importation or manufacture of a controlled substance.
  28. Felony involving burglary.
  29. Felony involving theft.
  30. Felony involving dishonesty, fraud and misrepresentation.
  31. Felony involving possession or distribution of stolen property.
  32. Felony involving aggravated assault.
  33. Felony involving bribery.
  34. Felony involving illegal possession of a controlled substance punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of more than 1 year.
  35. Violence at international airport; 18 U.S.C. 37.
  36. Conspiracy or attempt to commit any of the criminal acts listed above.
In the past ten (10) years, have you ever been convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of any of the above listed crimes?

I am not an expert but I believe that Assault with a deadly weapon is aggravated assault. You, it sounds not convicted of that but of a lessor charge that would not be disqualifying.

At the very least I would disclose what happened to any future employer and have a really good way to explain it.

You have not invested a lot of time or money in a flying career yet and before you do, you need to think about two things.

First consider that after you get your hours and are looking for your first job after CFI there will be thousands of applicants with more hours than you in aircraft that are more complex then the ones you have flown. They do not have any blemishes on there record and they have good friends that already work at the airline. So why would they hire you?

Second, you need to figure out what happened. It sound like either your lawyer wasn't straight with you, or you weren't really paying attention to all that happened. You need to basically do your own background check.

I am not a lawyer and I would definitely find one that you can trust (if one actually exists) before spending 50 grand on flying.
 

Snakum

How's your marmott?
Joined
Feb 21, 2002
Posts
2,090
Total Time
Little
Get yourself a laywer and get it exsponged from your record

And get fired during ground school if you didn't put it on your application. Run a search ... it's been covered extensively. You outhouse lawyers are going to get some young pilot's heart broken.


Minh
 

navigator72

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
913
Total Time
1700+
I would continue with flight training..... In a few years when you are ready for the airlines (assuming you have no other arrests). tell them the truth, be totally honest with them. if you try to cover it up, they are going to find out and you won't get the job. If you accept responsibilty for your actions, The interviewer will see this and you might just get the job flying the big jets.

We all have made mistakes, Not all of us point guns at people but we all make mistakes.
Goodluck
 

siucavflight

Back from the forsaken
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Posts
3,512
Total Time
5000
You did community service? You were convicted plain and simple. Can you get an airline job? Sure, but your chances are slim. Think of it like this, me and you have the exact same qualifications for the job, you have an assult conviction, I have a clean record and they are only hiring one pilot, guess who is getting the job?
 

Snakum

How's your marmott?
Joined
Feb 21, 2002
Posts
2,090
Total Time
Little
Oh ... and one more thing. I sure hope you listed it on your student medical application. They gave a guy six months in federal prison in the town next to mine for not doing so. And I'mnot talking about a suspended sentence. He went to prison. You will, sooner or later, have someone go thru your records, and if they find it (and they will) ... you're toast. And I'm not joking, and I'm not exaggerating. Run a search. It's all there.

If you have filled out a student medical form already and failed to list it because someone told you it was 'expunged' (no such thing for federal investigative purposes by the way, and that's straight from an agent's mouth) ... call the FAA now and own up to it. Someone else here did that and came out OK.

We need a sticky about this at the top of the forum. These questions come up every couple months and invariably there's someone telling a student pilot "It was expunged ... don't worry about it." or "If you were a minor it doesn't show". I went thru every single scenario you could possibly come up with when I was investigated, just so I could give people the straight dope. The agent understood why I asked and says he sees it all the time and that the FAA is no longer tolerating ignorance of the rules or some young student trying to skirt it. Since 9/11 they are NOT playing. They will nail your ass to a cross if you try to bend the rules. And then there are the 121 pilots here who've SEEN guys pulled out of ground school and sent home because they took bad advice.

How do we lobby for a 'sticky'?

Minh

Original Poster ... PM me for details. I went thru the full boat investigation last year and asked a million questions. I have a misdemeanor conviction and I know already that for corporate aviation it's not a big deal if you're upfront. The people I fly with know all about it, and have from day one. So even if you can't fly for a 121 operation there are many other options for you, if you want it bad enough. But if you dont list it on the medical ... bad juju, bro. I was d*mn glad that I had listed it on every app since 1996 and could prove it with copies. It saved my license. PM me if you want.
 
Last edited:

Galaxy

Watching FLOPS die slowly
Joined
Jan 8, 2002
Posts
426
Total Time
8k+
Snakum said:
And get fired during ground school if you didn't put it on your application. Run a search ... it's been covered extensively. You outhouse lawyers are going to get some young pilot's heart broken.


Minh

The first thing a lawyer would do is listen to his story then check his legal record. Then take necesary action. What he has here is a legal issue..leave it to a lawyer not some computer savvy pilot..First if he was to make it through a background check and get to ground school why would he get fired? As far as breaking some young pilots heart... I will leave that to a laywer or some HR geek in a nicely worded letter.
This thread has been baited anyway..from being arrested for a felony then doing Community Service but no conviction?? Please tell me that even if you were ignorant to the law if your butt was on the line I would learn about it real fast.
 

SiuDude

Internet tough guy
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Posts
969
Total Time
Why
What you need to do is get a fingerpring based background check from the FBI.
Here's the link, it costs $18:
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/fprequest.htm
I guarantee you that they will have a record of that arrest. FBI does not normally keep track of dispositions, so it will not indicate whether you were convicted or not..
I was in a similar situation. I was charged with misdemeanor theft about 5 years ago but never convicted. I applied and received an expungement in Illinois. That clears out the state and county records. A notice is also sent to the FBI with the request to remove the arrest record. It is up to you to follow up with the feds and make sure that it is removed.
Most airline applications only ask about convictions. In that case the answer is no.
AWAC's application asks the following question:
"During the past 10 years, have you been a defendant in any criminal proceedings in any court of law?" The answer is yes. Even if it was expunged, don't lie on the interview.
 
B

BR549

SeanAucoin said:
alright, this is actually starting to confuse me now! all I know is that my lawyer told me I don't have a criminal record, he did a background check and there is no criminal record for myself. I shouldnt of put the case was "dismissed" I didn't even get pre trial probation which is the lowest possible thing you can get. All I know is they reduced what I had originally gotten, then the judge said if I did the service, he would clear the case.... I had my lawyer look up a criminal record, and I dont have one, so whatever it ended up as. Its not criminal...



Just a hunch, but was you lawyer a public defender?
 

SeanAucoin

Active member
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Posts
37
Total Time
440
hey BR,

he was not a public defender he did service as head DA for the boston region for several years, and also an attorney for the police union
 
Top