BE400 upgrade

[TRBojet]

It's been a few years since I've last asked the question on here about upgrading from our Beechjet, but considering the used airplane market I think we might be close now. Are there any other airplanes besides an XL or LR45 that would be a good upgrade to from a Beechjet. I still come back to those two because I believe their DOCs would be close to the Beechjet. I've been re-reading some earlier posts from a couple of years ago comparing these two planes but if anyone has any newer comments either way I'd love to hear them. Looks like we could buy either one for about the same as we payed for our BJ in 2004.

Thanks.

 

[BoilerUP]

How much you want to spend?

$4-5M could get you a 800XP, LR45, LR60, Astra SPX, Excel, or (heh) an early-mid serial CJ3.

 

[guido411]

How old of an airplane are you willing to accept? What's your price point?

Could get a used Hawker 850XP. You can offset a lot of the higher operating costs on the amount of fuel you can tanker with it assuming you get a much better fuel price at your homedrome than you do on the road. Depening on stage length you may be able to do a lot of the same trips and never buy fuel on the road. You can fill the seats and the tanks almost every day. You just have to make sure you make landing weight when doing so.

 

[TRBojet]

We're probably looking at $4-5 MIL for price. 70% of our stage lengths are about 1 hour, 15% 2 hours, 15% over 2 hours. It's really cabin and baggage size that's our problem besides the range. I think they would want a plane that's at least as modern as the Beechjet. The CJs aren't big enough. We regularly haul 6-8 pax. One of regular stops is 4600' long @1300 ASL. Would the HS or LR60 be limited in the summer? Our Beechjet sure is. I'm also not impressed with the baggage on the Hawker or 60, especially the latter. 45 vs. XL: As a pilot, I'd rather fly the Lear; but to recommend to the owners, I think I would go with the XL. I'm nervous about reliability on the 45. Besides the BR mod (45) and APUs on both, any other options or S/Ns to look for?

 

[Quimby]

http://www.controller.com/listingsd...EAM-SPX/2001-ASTRA-GULFSTREAM-SPX/1141925.htm

http://www.controller.com/listingsd...le/HAWKER-1000A/1994-HAWKER-1000A/1165325.htm

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/LEARJET-45/2000-LEARJET-45/1137890.htm

http://www.controller.com/listingsd...TSTAR-II/1977-LOCKHEED-JETSTAR-II/1152959.htm

The last one is for pure ramp pimp appeal. TCB style.

 

[johnsonrod]

Check out the Phenom 300 - I know some delivery positions are available...

Have you considered the Phenom 300? I've seen a few ads for 2010 positions that are available here and there. Looks like Flight Options will be replacing many of their Beechjets with Phenom 300s over the next few years. Looks like a nice airplane - check it out:

http://www.embraerexecutivejets.com/english/content/aircraft/phenom300_home.asp

Here are some comparison numbers from Flight Options website as well - check out the comparison matrix (not sure if they are completely correct or unbiased):

http://www.flightoptions.com/phenom-300-comparison.html

 

[LJ45]

The Lear 45 is a solid airplane now, esp later serial numbers. at 1300 agl, 4600 feet, 30c, flaps 20, 8 pax @ 200, Bow 14,300 with the 45XR (BR engine) you can carry @ 4300 lbs of fuel or 2 hrs plus a 1300 lbs res.

 

[jet2work]

We're probably looking at $4-5 MIL for price. 70% of our stage lengths are about 1 hour, 15% 2 hours, 15% over 2 hours.

The Hawker is overkill for 1 hour stage lengths, however you might find that they start using it more on the longer trips. You should be able to get a decent Hawker 800XP for 5Mil.

It's really cabin and baggage size that's our problem besides the range. I think they would want a plane that's at least as modern as the Beechjet. The CJs aren't big enough. We regularly haul 6-8 pax.

Baggage size is an issue for the Hawker. That airplane is perfectly suited for business day trips, and works great for 3-4 pax trips with Bags. I think that I can fit more bags in the trunk of a Beechjet, than the closet of a Hawker. A Collins Pro-Line equipped XP has a more modern cockpit than a GV.

One of regular stops is 4600' long @1300 ASL. Would the HS or LR60 be limited in the summer? Our Beechjet sure is.

I heard the 60 Loves runway length on landing (at least the book does). I haven't flown a Hawker into a runway shorter than probably 4900'. It probably can do it at a light enough weight, under the right conditions, but you would have to run the numbers coming and going and hope the temp stays cool and it doesn't rain etc... My advice is go somewhere else.

I'm also not impressed with the baggage on the Hawker or 60, especially the latter.

You and everyone else

45 vs. XL: As a pilot, I'd rather fly the Lear; but to recommend to the owners, I think I would go with the XL. I'm nervous about reliability on the 45. Besides the BR mod (45) and APUs on both, any other options or S/Ns to look for?

I would also worry about Bombardier's Pi$$ poor customer service. The 45 did have alot of bugs, most of which I believe are worked out now. I swear AOG must translate into French as Everything is OK, just take your time getting us the parts.:uzi:

You would love flying the Hawker. It flys very nice, and performs much better than the Beechjet in both speed and range. The cabin is almost a standup cabin. The lav is usable. It has a tiller, an APU, and single point fueling and lav (which addresses all my complaints about the Beechjet). It is a tough, reliable airplane with great engines (TFE 731's). They hardly ever break, and when they do, there is usually a wealth of mechanics who know how to work on them (the airframe itself has not chaged a whole lot in 20 years). The Hawker can fly to Europe with one stop, or make Hawaii from the west coast.

 

[jet2work]

Here's a Honewell XP under $5Mil asking price.

http://www.controller.com/listingsd...le/HAWKER-800XP/1999-HAWKER-800XP/1163515.htm

Here's another Honeywell XP
http://www.controller.com/listingsd...le/HAWKER-800XP/2000-HAWKER-800XP/1167162.htm

 

[CelticCitation]

Simplot might give you their Hawker 800. It's a little older, has all the same Hawker limitations, but could be had for a song where you're at. Besides, you should always buy LOTS of fuel when on day trips. I have the listing at my office, PM me if you're at all curious.