Baron 58 vs. Meridian or older TBM 700

peter185

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What is the groups feeling about making a move from a piston twin to a single turboprop? FYI, it is a 1990 BE-58 with Known Icing, Air Conditioning, early 1990's avionics (except the GPS and Skywatch 497), and a useful load of only 1390 lbs. The missions would stay the same for the most part with 90% of the trips being under 500 NM. Looking to spend in the 1.2-1.5 million dollar range.
 

Tram

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1.5 million? Why not bump it up to a King Air or something along those lines?
 

hopeIcan

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Turbine reliability!!! I fly a single engine turboprop and would take it any day of the week over a piston twin
 

peter185

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The company likes the hourly operating costs of the meridian/tbm.
 

Tram

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Then yeh, go with a single turbine..
 

501261

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Ya go with the single turbine, its just that much safer than 2 pistons.
 

PC12Cowboy

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Well if pushed the TBM can go fast...cant carry alot and is a LOOOOOONG runway bird, Acquistion is more but the PC12 flies circles around it and makes a better all around people carrying airplane.
The TBM is tiny inside...thats why they need a pilot door
But the bottom line is.......Turbines are far superior to pistons
 

ackattacker

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PC12Cowboy said:
Well if pushed the TBM can go fast...cant carry alot and is a LOOOOOONG runway bird, Acquistion is more but the PC12 flies circles around it and makes a better all around people carrying airplane.
The TBM is tiny inside...thats why they need a pilot door
But the bottom line is.......Turbines are far superior to pistons
Long runway bird? Have you ever flown one? I have... At max gross we would routinely take it into 2500' strips. The "B" models I flew at max gross required 2133' over a 50' obstacle. The PC12 requires 2300' for takeoff over a 50' obstacle at max gross.

At recommended cruise speeds at typical weights we would routinely see 290kts true airspeed with a relatively quick climb to altitude. The PC12 will take longer to get that high at twice the fuel burn and only see maybe 260 knots at a lower altitude and higher fuel burn.

The original poster specified that 90% of the legs would be less than 500nm. At that distance, the TBM700 can fill all the seats (6) and a good amount of baggage. The new "C2" model can fill the tanks AND the seats, then make it coast to coast with 1 stop (maybe 2 westbound). Figure 290 gallons at 40 gal/hour and 290 knots (minus climb fuel). A new TBM700C2 can be aquired for the cost of a used PC12.

The PC12 will also make it coast to coast with one stop, but it will burn more fuel and go slower. It's optimimum cruise altitude is lower. It will also cost more to insure, hangar, and maintain.

Also, none of the TBM's I've flown had a pilot door. The primary use of a pilot door is for freight carrying so you can fill the back with boxes. Otherwise, it's not difficult to get through the cabin.

That being said, I'm not knocking the PC12. It's for a different mission. The PC12 is a MUCH larger airplane. It has a toilet, and is typically configured with 7 seats in the back as opposed to the TBM's 4. It is more roomy. For 500nm missions, the TBM is pretty comfortable though. I never thought is was tiny. It's certainly roomier than the B58 the poster is currently using.

I once ran a Total Cost of Ownership analysis for a person considering a new B58, a used TBM700, and a used PC12. This is several years old (fuel costs have gone up) but assumed a east coast metropolitan area base (high hanger costs). At 400 hours per year, the B58 would cost about $800k over 5 years. At 350 hours per year (faster aircraft), the TBM700 was $1.1 million and the PC12 $1.4 million. These costs include everything, including professional pilot, and consider tax advantages and profit from sale at the end.

For a 500 nm IFR trip, the B58 could only carry 3 pax. The TBM700 5 pax and the PC12 a theoretical 9.

Hope this helps.
 

Huggyu2

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ackattacker,
Nice breakdown. Very well done. I'm going to pass this info on to a friend of mine that could use it too.
 

peter185

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ackattacker,

Thanks for clearing up the takeoff distance issue, I had heard that the TBM was a little long on takeoff too, which is factoring into our aircraft upgrade decision with only 3400' of runway available.

One more question ackattacker would you put the hourly operating cost of the TBM at $350 an hour if fuel cost an average of $3/gallon.
 

Geronimo4497

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$3 a gallon for jet fuel? Where, I'll be there shortly! :D
 

ackattacker

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peter185 said:
ackattacker,

Thanks for clearing up the takeoff distance issue, I had heard that the TBM was a little long on takeoff too, which is factoring into our aircraft upgrade decision with only 3400' of runway available.

One more question ackattacker would you put the hourly operating cost of the TBM at $350 an hour if fuel cost an average of $3/gallon.
The new C2 model advertises a 2800' takeoff distance over a 50' obstacle (due to the 800lb gross weight increase from the B model). Still should be OK with a 3400' runway.

I'm having trouble pulling up the spreadsheets I used to do the figuring, so I can't tell you what fuel cost I used (but it was probably somewhere around $2.40). I had concluded with an average hourly variable expense of $347/flight hour. So add another $30/hour. But there's a lot of assumptions in there, and at low utilizations the fixed expenses are actually much greater than the variable. At 350 hours per year for 5 years, taking into account the total cost of ownership, you're actually spending more like $625/hour.

If you're serious you'd be wise to get the latest Conklin and de Decker info. Although I flew the airplane a bit, I never managed one so I can't really add to their data. I recall that I used their info as a starting point when I did my analysis.
 

peter185

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Geronimo,
Airnav says the national average for Jet A is $3.21, so the $3/gallon assumption is a little low.
 
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