Bare Minimum Time For A Job?

[Steve]

Cessna 140

Weekendwarrior,

How much did the 140 set you back? I was thinking of getting a 140 myself.

 

[weekendwarrior]

$20,000. I've seen them from $17,000 on up to $30,000. Mine has gyros, radio, xponder, VOR/LOC/GS. I wouldn't fly it IFR though. The gyros are all venturi driven and are not that accurate. Not to mention, the VOR/LOC/GS/COMM all use the same antenna, so an ILS isn't that accurate either. Anyway, it is a fair weather machine, time builder. Costs about $10.00/hour to operate. (not including engine reserves) Dirt cheap flying. Unless something breaks, of course. I did have to have a cylinder overhauled at about $600. Nevertheless, I've flown about 50 hours so far in it, and have only put about $1000 into it, plus gas and insurance.

Not to mention tailwheel flying will make you a better pilot. Keeps you awake on t/o and landing. It's a real dream to fly, though. Low and slow, cheap, etc. It does not do well over mountains in the summer time. Density altitude is not good when you only have 85 HP.

 

[Steve]

What's the cost of insurance for a low time pilot (I have 300 hours with a Commercial license) for a 140? I 'v looked at a few 140s and am considering purchasing one.

 

[willi7]

instruction

weekend just think of how well you would do if you got your cfi, (shouldn't cost you more than 2000 maybe 2500) and then instructed in it. You would have to do regular maint, but you can charge whatever you want for your time as well as for the airplane. You may even make some money. And the kicker is you get to chose who you instruct. Best of both worlds!!

 

[weekendwarrior]

I looked into that. The insurance is about $5,000/year as opposed to $1200/year. Not to mention my plane is a tailwheel, and unless I was giving tailwheel checkouts, it's pretty useless. The last thing I would want to do with my airplane is to teach someone how to land a tailwheel. Too much abuse, expense, and if they ground loop the thing, it goes on my record, being PIC.

Not worth it.

 

[weekendwarrior]

I only had 190 TT and no tailwheel time when I bought my 140. The insurance is $1200/year, and that included getting a tailwheel endorsement in my airplane. I just had to put my CFI on the policy for the tailwheel. Got the insurance through Nationair. Great guys. http://www.nationair.com ask for JT Helms.

 

[cpritchie5]

Instructing is not the most glorifying job but it gives you valuable experience dealing with people. When you get a job and upgrade to captain one of the roles is to be a teacher. The experience also comes in hany if you want to become a check Airman as well.

CR

 

[DesertFalcon]

WeekendWarrior;

I'll say it in only a few words, "Become a Flight Instructor".
It's worth the experience!

I have also heard that some companies won't consider you unless you have been a flight instructor in the past?

 

[Aviator]

Being an aircraft owner myself, I agree with weekendwarrior's logic. I've logged nearly 500 hours of quality time. In the last 4 years, I've flown coast to coast three times and even been island hopping in the Bahamas and down to Baja several times. It's been a blast! Planning to go to Alaska in August. I've been primarily doing IFR training flight between San Diego and LA shooting multiple approaches. Always try to fly with people more experienced than myself. My goal is hone my flying skills to a professional level. The opportunity for networking alone with this method more than justifies this approach to timebuilding. I've flown with several airline pilots and even a WW2 B25 bomber pilot. Last week a friend brought home $50 for a week of instructing. He was at the airport 6 days for 10 hours a day. Granted he is just starting out and this will change over time. I agree that instructing has many advantages both in the present and for the future. But if you have the means, aircraft ownership is a viable option for gaining real world experience. (BTW my insurance is $400 a year/last annual $175)

 

[norskman2]

Aviator,

I too am intrigued by the idea of buying a cheap plane and building some hours.

But I don't get it -- who are these more professional pilots you fly with? People you know? Just pilots you meet hanging out at the FBO? Do you entice them with a free trip to Baja?

We'd all love to network, but I'm just wondering where you're meeting all these other pilots.

 

[cpritchie5]

I used to hanh out at the airport plus working at FBO's and Pilot shops..met many folks that way.

 

[Aviator]

I've met people for the training flights in a number of ways. I post messages at various FBO's to share X/C time. Also at AOPA conventions, airshow's , FAA seminars, or just hanging around the airport. I allways have business cards with my contact info with me(iprint .com is a good source for this). Some of the local flying clubs have a list of people who want to share time along with their qualifactions. That's been a great help in finding people as well. The Baja flights I've only done with some non-pilot friends.

 

[wil]

Your post is insulting- you want the "majors" Well, we have United, Delta and US Air pilots right now in training at ASA- thats right a "regional" Think any right seat time you buy will make you competitive? You'd better adjust your thinking if you want to get into this market!!

 

[norskman2]

Aviator,

Thanks for the tips! Happy flying!

 

[onetaco]

The insurance is about $5,000/year as opposed to $1200/year.

I know a guy who owned a c-120. He would instruct out of it and seemed to do OK financially. He said the trick is to insure it with some kind of vintage aircraft policy. The plane must be a certain age (I think older that 1965). He said this policy covers dual given, but wasn't a full commercial policy so he couldn't let people solo it. He paid around $1000/yr for insurance and made money giving tailwheel endorsements.

Now for the rest of the story: When a friend he trusted would get enough time to be named on the policy he would add them and let them give tailwheel endorsements out of his plane. One day one of these people didn't supervise his student close enough and plane gets flipped over. (high speed + lots of toe brakes= prop in ground). Everybody walked away from the plane just fine, and after the insurance company is done, his aircraft is worth more than when he bought it. And best of all the wreck wasn't on his ticket.

 

[CCDiscoB]

You can always move to the beach and start towing banners. If fact there is a banner tow job on Climbto350.

 

[Aviator]

In response to Wil’s post….. I’m fully aware of the current backflow situation at the Regionals. If you’re one of the unfortunate pilots out on the street right now, I wish you the best of luck. Times are tough right now; but it has been worse in the past (http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7205) If you feel that you are insulted by what I’m doing, then you certainly are jumping to conclusions. Just for the record, I’m firmly opposed to PFT. I think people that try to build their time through outfits such as Gulfstream are hurting themselves in the long run. I usually charge just enough to cover my fuel cost ($15/hr) or whatever they can afford to pay. If I charged enough to cover all of my expenses it would be considerably higher. The other person always has the option to sit in the left seat. We can both legally log the time as PIC since one person is acting as a safety pilot, while the other person in under the hood. Your’s is the first negative reaction I have encountered. Most people feel that this is a win-win situation.