Banner towing in unmodified AC

[gsrcrsx68]

Anybody ever tow a banner in either an unmodified plane or a very lighty modified plane? I like to tow small banners (big nylon flag type) with a 152, no banner exchanging. Just up, deploy banner and either drop it or land with it in tow. Thoughts?

Anyone ever applied for a waiver to tow a banner? How long does it take?

 

[gsrcrsx68]

Oh and Paco, I know...your gonna build an international banner towing company of volunteer aviators who will tow banners for free on their days off from their airline jobs.

 

[LR25]

Its not usual to land with a banner, only when it gets hung up. I have flown a T-41, military C-172, but it seemed to have enough HP to do the job. Also pulled with a Standard 150HP Super Cub, it did fine usualy, but if were hot, full gas and a large banner (letters) it sometimes didnt want to climb to good.

 

[momalley81]

There's not much a 150hp Super Cub won't tow. Depending of course on endurence and weather. 235 horse Pawnee will tow a decent banner, but you aren't going to stay up very long without some extra gas. I've seen guys towing with standard 182's and Stinson 108's as well. Cessna Bird Dogs make good tow planes, stock as well. Biggest problem you'll have is limited endurence without extra gas. Though a PA-11 Cub with a O-290 can stay up for around 3-4 hours with the standard fuel, and you'll still be able to tow medium sized letter banners and smaller billboards.

You are still going to need some sort of hitch though. Landing with the banner can get dicey with some larger billboards, especially with tailwheel aircraft. And wear and tear on the banner is bad enough just picking them up, can't imagine dragging one across pavement on takeoff. As for "deploying" it in flight? Not a chance; enough goes wrong just chucking a hook out the door.


Can't help you with the waiver though. Best bet is to call your FSDO and see what they want. I've seen 3 differant waivers, all with differant limitations for 3 differant regions.

 

[missionarypilot]

I couldn't imagine trying to throw out even a letter banner in flight!!! Agree with above post...enough peole have had flight controls jammed just from throwing a hook out the window. And landing with it in tow is usually in emergencies only..as in the banner won't release. I can't imagine doing that as normal procedure.

 

[ReverseSensing]

O-320 172's will tow a banner adequately, as long as it's not too big (I think we went up to 20 4' letters) or too high/hot. These had the hitch mod, but it doesn't seem like a very extensive mod.

 

[avbug]

I've installed tow systems in 172's and 182's for banner and glider towing. I've towed with airplanes as small as 150's.

Why on earth would you land with a banner, or a tow rope for that matter? That's a ridiculous idea.

Jamming controls when tossing a hook? One would have to be an absolute idiot to do that. Toss down and you'll never have that problem. You'd have to try hard to toss it up to get it over the stab, and even then to jam the controls...lots of people have jammed controls when throwing the hook? Who, exactly?

Towing without a release? What are you going to do if you have a problem? You need to have a release. I don't think the FAA will be happy about that.

Waiver? Get some experience towing banners; take a job and work a summer, then think about it.

 

[LAZYB]

Towed in the LA area for a couple of years.

C-150s - 2 with O-360, 1 with O-320. All had climb props, oil cooler, and drooped wing tip aux fuel tanks. Had 5-6 hr endurance as I recall.

Did a **ll of a job.

Not all that expensive to get into.

 

[BGSM]

banner

I suggest doing a little more research, yes you need a waiver the a/c will be a restricted cat. If you haven't towed before you will need training and the FAA most likely will require and watch you do a few pick ups and release. I owned a banner company and have towed with a super cub, PA-25 and flew night signs with a c-172. You cant tow over games anymore since the NFL and NCAA basically bought the airspace Good luck

 

[missionarypilot]

Jamming controls when tossing a hook? One would have to be an absolute idiot to do that. Toss down and you'll never have that problem. You'd have to try hard to toss it up to get it over the stab, and even then to jam the controls...lots of people have jammed controls when throwing the hook? Who, exactly?

Well that's the whole reason they make rudder horn guards...on taildraggers like Super Cubs if the cable isn't routed correctly it could catch on the rudder guard. I know a guy who threw his hook out too soon and it bounced off the ground and over the horizontal stab. I know another guy who somehow got the hook caught on the rudder horn...when he picked up the banner he said he got full rudder deflection...but landed safely. Same guy said another guy working with him got killed because of hook & cable getting caught in flight controls. Most other banner towers I've talked to have some sort of "trick" for making sure the hook drops down & back...whether it be rudder horn guards or a little safety wire. Obviously it has happened enough that people are trying to prevent it. I'll see if I can find some NTSB reports.
Personally I just make sure to throw the hook down...and then watch it swing back up on the other side. I've had no problems yet...