Bad news for Alaska poolies...

[Singlecoil]

A reduction bid was posted today that reduces 12 MD FO positions in Seattle and 4 737 FO positions in LA, both effective 3-2-05. That was the same day the bid with 34 new hires was to become effective. I'm pretty sure that means only 18 new hires on 3-2-05, 12 in ANC, 6 in SEA, and none in LA.

Drat.

 

[Mooseflyer]

Ugh - this board DID have some pretty good news on it tonight.....

 

[av8instyle]

I just read it!!!!

PLEASE POST FOR PILOT INFORMATION!

REDUCTIONS​

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In accordance with Section 10.F of the Pilot’s Working Agreement with Alaska Airlines, the following positions will be reduced:​

Seattle MD83 Base​

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Twelve (12) Permanent First Officers​

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Twelve is to reduce new hires due to a reduction in staffing needs.​

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Effective 02March2005​

Los Angeles B737 Base​

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Four (4) Permanent First Officers​

​

​

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Four is to reduce new hires due to a reduction in staffing needs.

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Effective 02March2005​

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I wonder if this is simply due to the fact that they lost a bunch of poolies and can do without hiring until TA.​

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[BarbrPole2theOM]

From what I have gathered, it sounded like the pool is around 18-20 for pilots that would be able to accept a class date. Some have been hired on at other carriers, and some are back on active duty. It looks like no other pilots will be brought in untill a TA is passed. This does not look like bad news for poolies, just bad news for those that wanted to slip into one of those 34 slots that would no longer be able to be filled due to lack of poolies.

 

[Singlecoil]

I hope you're right Barberpole. Actually, it makes quite a bit of sense, since they would have had time to contact people for class dates and determine who is available and who isn't. I'm glad to apologize for being an alarmist if that is the case.

 

[Rhino]

From a poolie...

I think you are giving the company too much credit!!!

No one from Alaska has given me a call to see if I'm still "in the pool". As far as I'm concerned this had nothing to do with any "reduced" numbers in the pool, whether real or assumed.
Regardless of the size of the pool and positions available to new hires, things should change dramatically when the contract is signed. All poolies (however many of us there are left) should have class dates and those on the "to be called list" (which includes about 75 bodies) will be in the interview process. Given the fact that Alaska wants concessions, they will get them in arbitration. Then they'll announce a significant aircraft purchase and hiring will ramp up quickly to match delivery, expansion and retirements in the coming years. I think this will prove to be a great time to be working for Alaska. Not because of the way things have gone for the past two years, but because of things to come. Granted, for those waiting for an interview this doesn't sound great. But, things can only improve. I guess I'm a "glass half full" kind of guy...

 

[Singlecoil]

I guess I'm a "glass half full" kind of guy...

Dang, I guess you are!

I've given this one a little more thought... Alaska is going to lose about 70 pilots next year to retirement. Hiring 18 in March would not seem to cover the losses in time for next summer. Unless... They are confident in getting significant work rule changes which would result in a more efficient operation, and require fewer replacements for retiring pilots. Why would they be that confident? Perhaps that means that they like they way negotiations are going, and don't see them ending up in binding arbitration, where anything could happen. I've heard if they could just get bank vacation it would mean they could get by with 50 fewer captains. 50+18= a number very close to 70.

 

[AK737FO]

Anybodys guess.

Singlecoil,
So we have not hired in what, over two years now? How many have gone and not been replaced? Enough to make reserve a busy place to hang your hat.
If they opened the school house a year ago they couldn't keep up with the retirement numbers that are coming in 07, 08 and 09.

Why is it that any time I fly with a CA over the age of 55 he is talking about punching out if this contact doesn't go well? I'm talking about guys with less than 30 in - who are just willing to say goodbye and take the hit in retirement.

My prediction is that we will go to arbitration, we will loose banked vacation for the senior guys, we will loose the A-plan which will be replaced by something else, and the company will start hiring with a vengeance as soon as the dust settles. I also think that Alaska would love to pounce on any open markets, should some of our brothers cease to have a place to work.

 

[kkat]

I don't believe an arbitrator can or would dissolve a defined benifit plan, even bankruptcy judges loathe to go there. If changes are to be made they must be negotiated.

 

[becket]

nevermind nothing to see here.

 

[ferlo]

I don't want to be alarmist, and I'm generally not a "glass half empty" kind of guy but I've been in this business long enough to see a few things ahead.

I think the reason the airline isn't hiring anybody, and is okay with retirees not being replaced, is because we have no scope language. I think if there is going to be a hiring boom it is going to be at Horizon, not Alaska. Everybody keeps saying, "they've got to start hiring soon for retirements". No they don't. Who said they plan on keeping "mainline" the size it is today or even two years ago. All signs point to a shrinking Alaska Airlines.

Why not? We have no scope, ALK ALPA, as far as I can tell, has never concerned themselves with it. Rj's now come in 100 seat models, and Horizon pilots are a heck of a lot cheaper. Recall that Alaska Bid on a mail Contract they knew they didn't have an airplane to fly. All our contract says about scope is that Alaska Pilots will perform all Alaska Airlines flying. That is the most basic scope languange in the industry. THE COMPANY WOULDN'T EVEN COMPLY WITH THAT. What was the big penelty ALPA made the company pay for abrogating our contract? 4 ANC pilots would recieve 85 hrs pay to sit on reserve. That's it. ALPA feels that 32 hours more pay for four pilots is adequate compensation for the company to throw out the contract for 1500 pilots. It doesn't bode well to say the least.

They're not hiring because they don't have any plans for expansion. This vision 2010 is nothing but the same old moldy carrot held out to pilot groups over the decades. The company says that they'll make so much money we'll expand by leaps and bound, buy aircraft and hire until the cows come home. What they'll really do is line their pockets with what was our money. There will be no growth, no hiring, and no aircraft. They are lying to you about 2010. History proves it. Not my pessimism.

If I was in the pool, I would find some way to get a 737 type rating and forget Alaska Airlines. Southwest is the only airline that actually does what they say. They plan it, fund it and execute it. Alaska Talks. That's it. Just a bunch of noise. No real planning, no funding and certainly no execution. Go to SWA and move on. Sorry to be a downer but I call it as I see it. Hoping for a Boom after the TA is either signed or shoved down our throats is futile.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

Not a "glass half empty" kind of guy, eh ferlo? I would agree with that. Your glass (as well as your brain cavity) is COMPLETELY empty. The proof is in your posts. Every single one of them are nothing but continual b!tching about how bad things are, have been and will be at Alaska Airlines.

If it is so bad, just get the f*ck out of there. Come take my job instead. I'll gladly trade with you. You are the most miserable Alaska pilot I have ever seen on this board. I suppose the hiring that continues in the Alaska training dept (according to their website) is for instructors to train Horizon pilots.

LOSER.

 

[mach none]

I agree with your insights on the lack of scope language. I hope we address this short coming. But I also think you need to take your meds. Everything you say on this board is a downer. Let the civil war begin.

I don't want to be alarmist, and I'm generally not a "glass half empty" kind of guy but I've been in this business long enough to see a few things ahead.

I think the reason the airline isn't hiring anybody, and is okay with retirees not being replaced, is because we have no scope language. I think if there is going to be a hiring boom it is going to be at Horizon, not Alaska. Everybody keeps saying, "they've got to start hiring soon for retirements". No they don't. Who said they plan on keeping "mainline" the size it is today or even two years ago. All signs point to a shrinking Alaska Airlines.

Why not? We have no scope, ALK ALPA, as far as I can tell, has never concerned themselves with it. Rj's now come in 100 seat models, and Horizon pilots are a heck of a lot cheaper. Recall that Alaska Bid on a mail Contract they knew they didn't have an airplane to fly. All our contract says about scope is that Alaska Pilots will perform all Alaska Airlines flying. That is the most basic scope languange in the industry. THE COMPANY WOULDN'T EVEN COMPLY WITH THAT. What was the big penelty ALPA made the company pay for abrogating our contract? 4 ANC pilots would recieve 85 hrs pay to sit on reserve. That's it. ALPA feels that 32 hours more pay for four pilots is adequate compensation for the company to throw out the contract for 1500 pilots. It doesn't bode well to say the least.

They're not hiring because they don't have any plans for expansion. This vision 2010 is nothing but the same old moldy carrot held out to pilot groups over the decades. The company says that they'll make so much money we'll expand by leaps and bound, buy aircraft and hire until the cows come home. What they'll really do is line their pockets with what was our money. There will be no growth, no hiring, and no aircraft. They are lying to you about 2010. History proves it. Not my pessimism.

If I was in the pool, I would find some way to get a 737 type rating and forget Alaska Airlines. Southwest is the only airline that actually does what they say. They plan it, fund it and execute it. Alaska Talks. That's it. Just a bunch of noise. No real planning, no funding and certainly no execution. Go to SWA and move on. Sorry to be a downer but I call it as I see it. Hoping for a Boom after the TA is either signed or shoved down our throats is futile.

 

[ferlo]

First of all, there will be no civil war from my end. We are one pilot group. We stick together. We may have a difference of opinion but that's far from a civil war.

Secondly, aside from wishful thinking and name calling what do you guys base your opinions? I deal in facts, not fantasy. Here are the facts of the last few years.

1) 1050 Alaska employees are layed off

2) 7 or 8 (I lost count) reduction bids

3) Horizon is now in the fly for hire buisiness with 70 seaters

4) A Stagnent hiring pool for two years.

5) The company said they want to grow LAX therefore they needed a co-terminal agreement. We gave it to them, they closed the MD-80 base.

6) They knowingly and willfully violated out meager scope clause with the mail contract.

7) They canceled/postponed aircraft deliveries.


That doesn't necessarily seem like the framework for a growing airline. I'm probably forgetting a few things as well but those are the highlights. Those are facts boys. I'm not emotional, I don't name call. As I said, I call it as I see it. If i'm wrong great. I'd love to be. Flame Away. BTW there is also no tooth fairy. Sorry.

 

[dogg]

Not a "glass half empty" kind of guy, eh ferlo? I would agree with that. Your glass (as well as your brain cavity) is COMPLETELY empty. The proof is in your posts. Every single one of them are nothing but continual b!tching about how bad things are, have been and will be at Alaska Airlines.

If it is so bad, just get the f*ck out of there. Come take my job instead. I'll gladly trade with you. You are the most miserable Alaska pilot I have ever seen on this board. I suppose the hiring that continues in the Alaska training dept (according to their website) is for instructors to train Horizon pilots.

LOSER.

Dooshbag, the hiring in the training department is to allow line pilots to go back to the line....... Alaska is not "ramping up the training department", more like ramping down.... the place is a ghost town.......They allready know that the next 150 pilots are going to come from changes in the contract .... that is a fact.....I doubt they will hire anyone in the remainder of 04 or in 05......

 

[av8instyle]

BTW there is also no tooth fairy. Sorry.

Funny!

They allready know that the next 150 pilots are going to come from changes in the contract .... that is a fact

You know, I've been silently thinking that this was a possibility for a while now. You're the first person I've heard/seen mention it. Just curious, did you get this "fact" from someone in the know, or did it just seem obvious to you?