Bad IOE experience

[Terrain Terrain]

248 is the speed the wussies use so they don't overspeed the aircraft. Real men don't care about the barber pole. j/k

AWACoff

Please just pull the breaker next time, then there is no buzzer, and if there is no buzzer, then there is no overspeed. problem solved

 

[91100 100 set]

What's so good about 248?

So you can get to the gate 20 seconds sooner. Besides, the passengers LOVE hearing the gear going down when you're going so fast. They enjoy that big scary whooshing noise.

 

[turbinesurgeon]

Please just pull the breaker next time, then there is no buzzer, and if there is no buzzer, then there is no overspeed. problem solved

On the Saab you can switch the audio panel to Emergency and that silenced the overspeed horn, its great for CDO's and when your in the sim and want to finish early.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

I feel your pain. At many airlines, IOE Captains are simply burn-outs pimping for a few extra bones in the paycheck. Others are insecure weenies with Napolean complexes who are on a power trip, who themselves have less than stellar piloting skills.

You don't see these type of guys very often in the sim. There you may actually have to speak and forward useful information and/or technique, and teaching is not their strong point.

Some places, such as where I'm at now, require their IOE guys to teach in the sim, so it tends to weed out the REAL a$$holes, plus there is a fairly effective peer review process.

But if you get a bad guy at a regional, you're pretty much boned.

Nu

 

[Bringupthebird]

I recently washed out of IOE at a well known regional on a jet. I did have some prior 121 experience, mostly in training but not a lot of line flying. The checkairman that I flew with was not very helpful to say the least. Any similar experiences and advice on bringing this issue up at an interview would be appreciated.

Have you considered a letter to the Dir of Ops and Pres. of the airline and put forward the idea of salvaging some of their investment in training you by allowing you to be reevaluated in the sim and following a succesful evaluation be returned to the line for IOE with another check airman. Emphasize that you're the same person they thought would make a good employee when they hired you and it would be beneficial to both of you to complete training and that if you cannot pass the sim evaluation then the story will end there .

Now, if you've burned your bridge, or if you aren't telling the whole story, then none of this may apply.

 

[ohoh]

i feel your pain!!!

of all the responses looks like the previous one seems to
be most helpful. see whether you can salvage it (nothing
to lose) and if not...be positive on all future occasions.

i myself had a difficult ioe - transitioning from a light
piston twin to a jet. a barely passed (down to ok...you
better make this landing or bust). but after passing
and a few months on the line...i'm ok now.

i too found my ioe "instructor" not do too much instruction.
there are definitely more than a few tips that can make
flying easier....none of those. nice guy though.

good-luck...believe it or not you're actually more capable
than a few months ago.

good luck!

 

[Dubya]

Suck it up sally assses

Are they really "screaming" at you? I doubt it. If someone was actually "screaming" at me during training...the training would stop immediately until the issues were addressed. For those of you that think when an instructor's voice goes up a few notches because they've told you the same thing 14 times and you still aren't getting it...it's not screaming. All you momma's boys better grow some thicker skin and get over your shortcomings and mistakes.
There's always more to these "i failed and it was the instructors fault cause he's mean and yells at me" stories.

W

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Which is it Dubya?? Grow a thicker skin or talk to the instructor about it? Having been in that situation with a person like the people describe here I would go with the suggestion to talk to the instructor or better yet, talk to the instructor's manager. I screwed up by not asking for an immediate change. Next time I'll know better. As far as I'm concerned the instructor or person in charge is responsible for setting the tone. I think NuGuy put it best in describing that type of person.

Maybe everyone that washes out due to difficulty dealing with a screamer is a weenie. I think with a screamer it becomes pretty difficult to get things right all the time knowing how unpleasant it will be the second you make a mistake. Been there, done that and won't let it happen again but I sure as hell don't think I was at fault in my one lousy experience for having to deal with a Napoleonic schmuck.

Mr. I.

 

[Yodafly]

On the Saab you can switch the audio panel to Emergency and that silenced the overspeed horn, its great for CDO's and when your in the sim and want to finish early.

I learn something new everyday

 

[ratherbeflyen]

The trick here is scream in at least 1000 feet low to the marker, lift the nose and you'll be configured by the glideslope.

We used to that flying freight.... when it was vfr.

I had a miserable experience on my first jet IOE. The captain was pissed and yelling all the time. I see what people are talking about with the learn it all yourself complaint. My OE captain seemed to be at odds with doing it by the book or his way.

I got a theory about some OE captains, my captain complained to a higher power, over minor stuff, 3 times in 4 days. So, all you got to do become a OE captain is complain eneugh untill the powers that be that be learn your name.

 

[Dubya]

Which is it Dubya?? Grow a thicker skin or talk to the instructor about it? Having been in that situation with a person like the people describe here I would go with the suggestion to talk to the instructor or better yet, talk to the instructor's manager. I screwed up by not asking for an immediate change. Next time I'll know better. As far as I'm concerned the instructor or person in charge is responsible for setting the tone. I think NuGuy put it best in describing that type of person.

Maybe everyone that washes out due to difficulty dealing with a screamer is a weenie. I think with a screamer it becomes pretty difficult to get things right all the time knowing how unpleasant it will be the second you make a mistake. Been there, done that and won't let it happen again but I sure as hell don't think I was at fault in my one lousy experience for having to deal with a Napoleonic schmuck.

Mr. I.

(raising voice one octave) Please go back and read my post again.

W

 

[NuGuy]

i too found my ioe "instructor" not do too much instruction.

Apparently your English teacher didn't do much instructing either.

Nu

 

[embpic1]

248 is the speed the wussies use so they don't overspeed the aircraft. Real men don't care about the barber pole. j/k

AWACoff

And then there are those co-pilots that fan the airspeed indicator if you get a little fast below 10000ft.

 

[suupah]

Colgan was my only IOE experience thus far and it was a very bad one. I am about the easiest person to get along with and am always looking for advice & constructive criticism but when I am doing things at an acceptable level for a new hire and getting screamed at like I was an eight year old that just skipped school for the day, that is completely unacceptable. After I was done he said I did okay and signed me off, huh? Colgan is a great place once you start flying the line but I sure do pity anybody that has to do their IOE in IAH. Good luck! The captain was so degrading, I think the CP's office should surely look into monitoring IOE from the jumpseat. I have heard other stories as well...some being very good IOE experiences from helpful and friendly IOE instructors. We're flying Saabs people, not 777's, please adjust your attitude to fit the level of equipment you're flying.

Later

Yeah I know the one you are talking about. told me to not ask stupid questions and used a plethora of profanities. I felt two inches tall. but on the other hand he was really nice outside of the plane. I think maybe he was doing a little too much IOE. I did the rest of my OE in Manasses and had a great experience.

 

[cx747]

I did the same thing suupah, 8 hours in IAH and 5 in HEF. The IOE guy in Texas was indeed very nice outside the airplane but once that cockpit door closed all hell broke loose. I really didn't appreciate being called a @#&*'n idiot numerous times for saying "trims set pitch one up" instead of saying it the correct way, "trims set pitch one UNIT up", etc. I was ready to quit. He was correct but to get bent out of shape over something so small...chill out dude. He couldn't just correct me, he had to scream at me...and yes it was screaming! Looking back on the experience, he wasn't even that great of a pilot compared to the regular captains I fly with daily at Colgan (they are all very helpful & great pilots). Oh well, chalked it up to another life experience...makes me never want to see the city of Houston again though since I know he's there.

 

[Hobit]

Pryor to going into details, I have to ask a question of the CJ people. If the screamer colgan IOE Capt had the first name of Haskel, he's got a bit of a reputation for freaking out on students down in FL. He 'used' to work at FSI and before that up in Daytona. Funny from a distance looking back at it but yeah, if it's the same guy, he really has a screw loose! How can some one keep their job as a yeller in this day and age?

Is that his first name? I heard he went to colgan and I would not be surprised in the least if he was still the same.

 

[145 Lawndart]

What airline was is? The only airline that I have heard with the short fuse is Skywest (not bashing skywest, just what I heard).

Like bluedevil said at XJT we have checks and balances so that more that one set of eyes does the eval and to avoid personality conflicts and different training styles.

If you bust out of XJT several people would have needed to see problems and deterimined you could not meet the standards.

Good luck to you.

 

[Dubya]

Okay..i'll accept your wording, and that he was "screaming" at you, and ask this...are you really so scared in that situation that you will allow someone to "scream" at you and verbally abuse you with profanity? At Colgan? For 19 bones an hour? Are you flipping serious? I don't care who it was or why it was...the training would stop immediately until the issue was addressed. There's only 2 people in this world that are allowed to "scream" profanities at me when I screw up...down from 4 after my grandpa and grandma passed...and I can count those instances on one hand. Even if you are a 20-24 year old wet behind the ears candidate...you are an adult and should be treated accordingly. Don't take that crap sitting down...stand up.

W

I did the same thing suupah, 8 hours in IAH and 5 in HEF. The IOE guy in Texas was indeed very nice outside the airplane but once that cockpit door closed all hell broke loose. I really didn't appreciate being called a @#&*'n idiot numerous times for saying "trims set pitch one up" instead of saying it the correct way, "trims set pitch one UNIT up", etc. I was ready to quit. He was correct but to get bent out of shape over something so small...chill out dude. He couldn't just correct me, he had to scream at me...and yes it was screaming! Looking back on the experience, he wasn't even that great of a pilot compared to the regular captains I fly with daily at Colgan (they are all very helpful & great pilots). Oh well, chalked it up to another life experience...makes me never want to see the city of Houston again though since I know he's there.

 

[CitationLover]

Pryor to going into details, I have to ask a question of the CJ people. If the screamer colgan IOE Capt had the first name of Haskel, he's got a bit of a reputation for freaking out on students down in FL. He 'used' to work at FSI and before that up in Daytona. Funny from a distance looking back at it but yeah, if it's the same guy, he really has a screw loose! How can some one keep their job as a yeller in this day and age?

Is that his first name? I heard he went to colgan and I would not be surprised in the least if he was still the same.

yes he is a cork. he was at business express and then eagle. was just offered to be fired or quit from eagle last fall and quit. every CRJ FO in ORD hated him. he was a navigator in the marines not a pilot.

 

[flybluesurf]

What airline was is? The only airline that I have heard with the short fuse is Skywest (not bashing skywest, just what I heard).

You hit the jackpot, the airline with the short fuse was Skywest. I flew with a different checkairman after that but by then I was up to 50 hour which is the max. After that they won't give you more no matter if you are doing well or not. Last guy I flew with was only for one trip that consisted of 5 legs, he said that I needed to fly a couple more trips and I would be fine. Next thing I know training dept calls and says that can't give me more 50 is the policy and they stress that when you get in the airplane. I guess 50 sounds a lot if you are doing short legs in a turboprop but not in a jet. Most my legs were long and I only got few visual approaches and 15 landings or so.