Backlash from "Fuel Conservation" cancellations

[~~~^~~~]

There's a big difference between what AA announced and what DL announced.

AA announced specifically that certain flights were being cancelled in October. These flights were removed from reservations and can not be booked. AA even went as far as to announce the specific route pairings that were taking cuts.

DL isn't removing any flights. They are just telling people that at any given time they may cancel your flight if the load is light. There's no way to know if DL will cancel your flight until two days before hand.

With AA, you know in advance where the cuts are being made. With DL, it's a total surprise. Business people don't like surprises.

Amen!

 

[FDJ2]

never mind

 

[michael707767]

General,

I have to agree with the other guys about this one. Our managers have made another very poor decision with this one.

Gen, I have to agree too. Very bad decision. They would be better off just going ahead and for the next month or two trimming the schedule a bit. But if people cannot count on a flight going, why would they book on Delta? I know I wouldn't.

 

[michael707767]

Also - the SkyWest pilots voted down the 50 seat pay for 70 to 90 seat airplanes. You should be giving them credit.

Delta might have a use for those pesky RJ's - they could use them to cover segments where they arbitraily decide to cancel a flight and screw their passengers at the last minute. Us RJ drivers have lousy contracts with short reserve call outs..

Fins, I do give the SKW pilots credit. Amazing that a non union bunch is one of the first to have some balls.

And I have said the same thing about RJs for years. I remember about two years ago I was flying a 763 from ATL-JAX, last flight of the night. Full of course but on this night we were leaving behind 46 passengers. I remember the number, cause I got on the phone, called operations and told them they should gin up and RJ and get those people down to JAX. Nope, they would not even consider it. Given the reserve call out rules you guys have, I think that would be a great use on an RJ. And talk about good PR....we pull up and RJ and got the pax there, same night. But nope, Delta management cannot think outside the box.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Michael:

You have the right idea and I know that they can do it. I flew a Delta extra section with an ATR once to a city that had never seen an ATR. It was neat to do it. By the same token we have flights that are always oversold and need to be mainline.

 

[klhoard]

. . .<snip>. . And talk about good PR....we pull up and RJ and got the pax there, same night. But nope, Delta management cannot think outside the box.

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Should have called FedEx. . . . We do it all the time for boxes. . . .
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[General Lee]

Gen, I have to agree too. Very bad decision. They would be better off just going ahead and for the next month or two trimming the schedule a bit. But if people cannot count on a flight going, why would they book on Delta? I know I wouldn't.

Michael,

If that is happening for reasons other than wx or mx, then it would be bad. This bad press from Fins might persuade them to trim the schedule..... And I am glad SkyWest voted no. Now what will they do?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FNG320]

Overkill there Fins. AA and other airlines are doing the same, and jet fuel prices prevent most middle managers from flying corporate. And when will those VLJ's come out in mass? Years. This flight cancellation deal is temporary during the slower SEP/OCT timeframe. AA started it too.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,
Don't forget that ASA is a DELTA Connection and that affects everyone's opinion of DELTA. You can't be #1 in Cancelled flights and #last in on-time arrivials and then have mainline cancel flights at random (at least to the public) and not get and deserve the bad press. Even if it was not true (but it is), preception is reality.

Highest rate of Cancelled flights: ASA (8.0%)
Lowest rate of ontime arrivials: ASA (59.6%)

Then Delta #3 in the Highest rate of Cancelled flights (Delta 3.1%)

(DOT August results)

....and these results are before the recent random cancellations....

Just the facts....

Just my opinion.....

FNG

 

[FNG320]

Hey, we average a dozen (12) flight cancellations a day out of thousands of flights. Easy there chief, stop drooling. Those flight cancellations are only temporary too, to get us through this slow season with unbelievable fuel costs. And your fuel costs are small? So is driving in an SUV to a plant 200 miles away, right? Wrong. Higher fuel hurts EVERYONE.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Like I said before, preception is reality. Temporary or not. Bad impressions last a lot longer than good ones. IF you burn someone, they will try to not get burned a second time. If the business customers leave even for a month or two, it will be harder to get them back, cause they will find it cheaper and more reliable to fly Air Tran or other.

Just my opinion....

FNG

 

[General Lee]

Like I said before, preception is reality. Temporary or not. Bad impressions last a lot longer than good ones.

Just my opinion....

FNG

Like your A320 incident in LAX? That wasn't a very good commercial for Jetblue. SNL had a great skit about it. I am very glad that it turned out well, though.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NTS ALL 4]

SkyWest pilots started this bad trend with the signing of the 99 seats for 50 seat pay deal. Then Jetblue assigned their pilots a krappy wage on their future 100 seater. Now a judge may do the same with us. There is a big difference with those scenarios.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Let's see what kind of "krappy" pay DALPO gets you for Delta's RJs. Bet it will be lower than SkyWest or Jetblue. I don't think the word may is in the judge's vocabulary. Insert impose where you think may might work. But hey, at least you'll be more productive with a lower seat rate.

Bye Bye,

 

[General Lee]

Let's see what kind of "krappy" pay DALPO gets you for Delta's RJs. Bet it will be lower than SkyWest or Jetblue. I don't think the word may is in the judge's vocabulary. Insert impose where you think may might work. But hey, at least you'll be more productive with a lower seat rate.

Bye Bye,

You really don't know what is going on over in court, do you? If you knew how the judge was treating Delta and it's lawyers, you would think differently. But, instead, you make remarks that show your ignorance. Dalpa has already looked at the current E190 rates at USAir, and they are higher than Jetblue's and anything SkyWest has. Word on the 4th floor is that the 100 seat rates and sick time proposals are just that, proposals---to use up some negotiating capital. They will be worked out. And rumor again has it that the "RJ" may be a 737-600, with 100 seats. Who knows? You don't. Go do some assault landings and get your frustrations out.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[michael707767]

.
Should have called FedEx. . . . We do it all the time for boxes. . . .

Ah, FedEX. Drives me nuts to think about them. I was hired by FedEx the same month I was hired by Delta. If there was one decision in my life I could go back and change that would be the one.

 

[Huck]

This reminds me of a captain at ASA (Robin E) that flew for the old PBA in the eighties down in Key West and up in Mass.

He was qualified in the Cessna 402, the Bandierante, the DC-3 and maybe something else. Never knew what he was going to fly until they pulled it out of the hangar. All based on loads, of course.

By the way - isn't it a requirement of a 121 certificate that you provide reliable service? ASA got spanked for this years ago - Macon was the maintenance hub, and flights were often cancelled there when aircraft weren't ready.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Huck:

It is worse today. Delta randomly pulled one or two flights per day out of major markets without telling anyone. We have been watching them drop like flies on travelnet. No notice what so ever. Words escape me. What do you call it when Delta sells you a ticket with a contract attached, but then randomly decides to cancel your flight out from under you? The rules apply to the passengers, but not to the airline?

Sure, Delta is desperate - but if things are this bad they need to just pull the plug on the thing. Passengers are getting the message - stay away from "unreliable" Delta. Pan Am and Eastern never even pulled this crap on their customers.

This sends the message that Delta is falling apart at the seams. Passengers think, "if the schedules are like this, I wonder what the maintenance is like."

Unless this program stops, Delta will be Chapter 7. Ron Allen made Delta passengers stop pulling for "their" airline with his draconian programs. Delta never overcame the programs he and McKenzie and Company implemented. This is much worse because Delta is selling a product, then randomly refusing to deliver. Delta has figured out a bold new way to take advantage of bankruptcy law to screw the average consumer.

 

[General Lee]

Huck:

It is worse today. Delta randomly pulled one or two flights per day out of major markets without telling anyone. We have been watching them drop like flies on travelnet. No notice what so ever. Words escape me. What do you call it when Delta sells you a ticket with a contract attached, but then randomly decides to cancel your flight out from under you? The rules apply to the passengers, but not to the airline?

Sure, Delta is desperate - but if things are this bad they need to just pull the plug on the thing. Passengers are getting the message - stay away from "unreliable" Delta. Pan Am and Eastern never even pulled this crap on their customers.

This sends the message that Delta is falling apart at the seams. Passengers think, "if the schedules are like this, I wonder what the maintenance is like."

Unless this program stops, Delta will be Chapter 7. Ron Allen made Delta passengers stop pulling for "their" airline with his draconian programs. Delta never overcame the programs he and McKenzie and Company implemented. This is much worse because Delta is selling a product, then randomly refusing to deliver. Delta has figured out a bold new way to take advantage of bankruptcy law to screw the average consumer.

Fins,

You are going way overboard here. This is NOT a common occurance. You need to relax. Really bud, easy now, ya hear?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MajorAv8r]

Month to date DAL is still running better than a 99% completion rate. Hardly unreliable. Atlanta's Slowest Airline is the worst in completion and on time, and they aren't selectively thinning for fuel issues, that is just normal ops. The FAA isn't on them, all though they were several years ago.

DAL is hit by the hurricanes and the lack of oil refining. More so than anyone. I believe they are being responsible. Better a few low load mid week flights canceled than large amounts of Fri and Sunday traffic gone.

This is not a big deal, just a slow news day.

 

[Cyclone]

delta

what a piece of crap company

douched their employees...lower pay, furloughed, broken retirement promises and so on and so on and so on

their unreliable schedule

their arrogant attitude

how could anyone with a brain actually defend their actions

they screw their employees and the customers they are supposed to be serving and we are reading some bozo who is taking it up the kazoo from them tell us about his sunny day...clueless

 

[General Lee]

what a piece of crap company

douched their employees...lower pay, furloughed, broken retirement promises and so on and so on and so on

their unreliable schedule

their arrogant attitude

how could anyone with a brain actually defend their actions

they screw their employees and the customers they are supposed to be serving and we are reading some bozo who is taking it up the kazoo from them tell us about his sunny day...clueless

Who do you fly for chief? It must be paradise where you fly.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Cyclone]

"Delta is not failing to plan, and we are certainly not planning to fail," -DL CFO

good luck with the plan

having a plan doesn't guarantee success...in the recent past their plans have been abysmal...but they had a plan...and now they are in BK...hiding behind the judge's cloak...putting the screws to employees, customers, and investors alike...but they have a plan

i know we'll paint all of our airplanes white and green and call it another name...and spend gazzillion of dollars on marketing and up-front costs on this scheme...and then we'll still lose more money than we ever lost before and we'll dive into BK protection and so we don't have to pay all of the money we pissed away on our new plan...let's do it. what a great company.

as far as you know i fly for commutair...or maybe not...noyfb anyway.