B6 Hotel?

[Longhorn]

Same here.

FAR duty limit? I am against the change.
Flight time limit? I am against the change.
190 pay rates? Too low.

I agree with all the above. As for the future of JB, not concerned at all. AS for the BELF being 93%, that number is WAY to high. It does change depending on route, ac, fair etc but 93% is not close at all.

Longhorn

 

[JP4user]

Same here.

FAR duty limit? I am against the change.
Flight time limit? I am against the change.
190 pay rates? Too low.

I agree with all the above. As for the future of JB, not concerned at all. AS for the BELF being 93%, that number is WAY to high. It does change depending on route, ac, fair etc but 93% is not close at all.

Longhorn

Thank you Longhorn, Blue Dude, Bavarian for the honest answers about 190, duty etc.

Blue, as far as the hotel, although I am not directly familiar with it, my Dad worked for BI as pilot and was management in the training department as a 727 IP. We still talk about aviation a lot and when the topic came up about the idea with Jet Blue with a crew hotel he started laughing. "It was an economic disaster for Braniff".

The place started as a "Hostess College"

http://www.braniffinternational.org/facilities/hostesscollege.htm

Longhorn, I will try and find the publication where I saw the belf is now the low 90's

 

[Longhorn]

If you could then great, but keep in mind that the BEDF changes everyday depending on the fairs for the flight, stage length, aircraft used, fuel price etc etc etc. So, the BELF for today will be different for a flight tomorrow and a flight 3 months ago.

 

[ArmadilloJackal]

I thought the BELF was much lower thanks to the new revenue management strategy. Lower factors but higher prices.

 

[MD80DRVR]

You can't predict what BELF will be for a quarter or even the week for that matter. It changes daily based on a multitude of things such as ticket prices, fuel, stage length etc.... I know the company has said over and over that we are focusing on increasing our ticket prices with a goal of getting our LF's in the mid 80% so we can recover easier from IROPs etc... When your planes are 100% full, it's hard to move people around if you cancel a flight or two.:beer:

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Cathay, Eva both have their own hotels. Pan Am started Intercontinental Hotel chain.

 

[Blue Dude]

Blue, as far as the hotel, although I am not directly familiar with it, my Dad worked for BI as pilot and was management in the training department as a 727 IP. We still talk about aviation a lot and when the topic came up about the idea with Jet Blue with a crew hotel he started laughing. "It was an economic disaster for Braniff".

Considering the fate of Braniff the Airline, are you really surprised by the fate of Braniff the Hotel?

 

[AKAAB]

Directly from VP of Flight Ops this week:

Transcon turns - JetBlue is not applying for an exemption to do transcon turns. The third-party fatigue study we participated in will be published for all to see in the coming months.

Duty Limits - JetBlue may partner with other airlines to seek more logical duty/flight time limits similar to military time-of-day based limits. Exact details still undetermined and will be collaborative with other carriers.

190 Pay - Compensation review scheduled over the Summer - expect 190 pay rates to be increased - probably by the first of the year.

>>>

Now, as for the hotel at MCO - it will be adjacent to the training center and I heard from another source that expect to recoup costs in only about two years. Also, the MCO base has been confirmed by several people in upper management. The timeline is expected to be around the end of 2006 or early 2007. This will significantly decrease the amount of rooms needed.

There's one other factor in the motel situation - retail space. I believe there is going to be some retail space available for lease across from the new motel. This is a great investment in my book.

 

[starvingredtail]

"Its not about the burgers--It's about the real estate"
Ray Kroc

 

[JP4user]

Considering the fate of Braniff the Airline, are you really surprised by the fate of Braniff the Hotel?

I don't think the one has anything to do with the other but who knows. All I was trying to pass on was my Dad said the whole thing sounded like a great idea for Braniff in the begining, then turned into a real problem and money pit in the end. History proved this experiment over there...will it repeat itself?

The comments all made about belf are true in one form or another. I digress until I can find the source. I was surprised at the number listed being so high.

AKAAB...I am very pleased to hear that your management is addressing those issues. It is good for everyone.

 

[JP4user]

Cathay, Eva both have their own hotels. Pan Am started Intercontinental Hotel chain.

Pan Am also was losing it's financial hide on them and had to sell the chain.

 

[IB6 UB9]

I think your analogy between BI's hotel and the B6 hotel is weak...at best. Am I to worry about my next departure because Orville and Wilbur only went 200 feet? C'mon. 190 Pay...low, NO to transcon turns, YES to Aruba layovers!! BTW, are you hoping we fail because you "heard" we are all in favor of the items you mentioned? That's what I get out of your cash-burning gleefulness.

 

[JP4user]

I think your analogy between BI's hotel and the B6 hotel is weak...at best. Am I to worry about my next departure because Orville and Wilbur only went 200 feet? C'mon. 190 Pay...low, NO to transcon turns, YES to Aruba layovers!! BTW, are you hoping we fail because you "heard" we are all in favor of the items you mentioned? That's what I get out of your cash-burning gleefulness.

Weak analogy? You got a better one that any airline has tried? I was merely pointing out a historical fact and the result. You guys need to stop drinking that sweetned blue juice. It makes you all too hyper.

One of my reasons for hoping to see a revamping or failure of Blue is that you erode revenue and fares in every market you touch. You have that ability based on a business plan that depends on low pay and marginal benefits.
But if/when you disappear another carrier promising the moon will emerge and people will flock to it like flies on stink. Virgin America comes to mind.
It is a perpetual cycle that is here to stay.

It is heartening to see the Blue folks standing up for themsleves about the 190 and transcon turns. But what if mangement said no to raises, yes to the turns and pushed the feds? What would you guys be able to do or where to draw the line?

 

[IB6 UB9]

"You have that ability based on a business plan that depends on low pay and marginal benefits."

Will you enlighten me where it is you work so we can compare?


"It is heartening to see the Blue folks standing up for themsleves about the 190 and transcon turns. But what if mangement said no to raises, yes to the turns and pushed the feds? What would you guys be able to do or where to draw the line?"

If those days come then we will address the issues as a group. Thankfully, so far, IMHO I feel we have been treated quite well...even better if the rumor is true that the 190 pay is being reviewed. Explain what anyone has been able to do with the issue of pay and lost work rules. I hope you are able to fondly refer to your ALPA card while you post about our inability to draw the line.

 

[clickclickboom]

Amazing

Weak analogy? You got a better one that any airline has tried? I was merely pointing out a historical fact and the result. You guys need to stop drinking that sweetned blue juice. It makes you all too hyper.

One of my reasons for hoping to see a revamping or failure of Blue is that you erode revenue and fares in every market you touch. You have that ability based on a business plan that depends on low pay and marginal benefits.
But if/when you disappear another carrier promising the moon will emerge and people will flock to it like flies on stink. Virgin America comes to mind.
It is a perpetual cycle that is here to stay.

It is heartening to see the Blue folks standing up for themsleves about the 190 and transcon turns. But what if mangement said no to raises, yes to the turns and pushed the feds? What would you guys be able to do or where to draw the line?

Amazing how yet another idiot has it all figured out.. The results of todays market sprouted roots over 20 years ago.. Legacy airlines deliberately operating at a loss, management fraud, dumping of pensions, slashing of pay, and once again legacy airlines operating in bankrupcy but this is the fault of a 6 year young startup with 100 planes????

 

[JP4user]

Will you enlighten me where it is you work so we can compare?


If those days come then we will address the issues as a group. Thankfully, so far, IMHO I feel we have been treated quite well...even better if the rumor is true that the 190 pay is being reviewed.

Why would you assume I am even working in the industry any longer?

One question, why didn't you as a group address the 190 pay rates before a wheel ever turned?

 

[JP4user]

Amazing how yet another idiot has it all figured out.. The results of todays market sprouted roots over 20 years ago.. Legacy airlines deliberately operating at a loss, management fraud, dumping of pensions, slashing of pay, and once again legacy airlines operating in bankrupcy but this is the fault of a 6 year young startup with 100 planes????

Did I claim on a macro scale it was entirely your fault? No I didn't. What I said was every market or a micro scale. You are another prime example of sensitivity run rampant over there. You can't have a conversation with guys like you because the dream that was sold to ilk like yourself is starting to erode. You know it but are just to scared to admit it. Sooner or later the upward musical chairs will stop and we will see how happy everyone is. Your prophet is already alluding to it.

 

[clickclickboom]

Did I claim on a macro scale it was entirely your fault? No I didn't. What I said was every market or a micro scale. You are another prime example of sensitivity run rampant over there. You can't have a conversation with guys like you because the dream that was sold to ilk like yourself is starting to erode.

Speaking of that, just how is that stock doing these days?

I will send you a medal you can wear it around your neck and look at yourself in the mirror. see i knew you would feel better..

 

[JP4user]

I will send you a medal you can wear it around your neck and look at yourself in the mirror. see i knew you would feel better..

Another intelligent reply which is sensitive and ignorant. Great combination! Looks like the HR department scored a home run with you.

 

[IB6 UB9]

Why would you assume I am even working in the industry any longer?

One question, why didn't you as a group address the 190 pay rates before a wheel ever turned?

I could assume you are not in the industry I guess, but I would then begin to wonder why you are hanging out on this board looking for your chance to spread a little ill will our way.

 

[JP4user]

I could assume you are not in the industry I guess, but I would then begin to wonder why you are hanging out on this board looking for your chance to spread a little ill will our way.

Because I am a masochist?

 

[IB6 UB9]

Because I am a masochist?

Maybe, but you are falling into a category of folks who have little to contribute but the wishing of doom and gloom on us. I am yet to figure that out. At any one time in this country there are 20-30 times the aircraft that we have in the air, and the crew is working for less and with work rules that are less as well...yet you would gladly see us in the unemployment line, many of us for the second or third time. I would be willing to bet the 6 pack I am about to enjoy that you have no idea what our lifestyle is like over here; you heard something from someone and jumped on the bash-wagon. Until you enlighten me as to why you feel this way I can only assume you are not unlike that intersection in ORD that sends his love so frequently. People who wish for the failure of others lack character. Your turn.

 

[B6Driver]

"Why would you assume I am even working in the industry any longer?"

My guess is that few if any will fly with you and that large head of yours!

One question, why didn't you as a group address the 190 pay rates before a wheel ever turned?

Thanks for all your concern but you don't work here so as much as you think it does, your opinion matters little if at all.

You seem like a bright fellow so take the hint, you don't matter so run along.

 

[JP4user]

"Why
My guess is that few if any will fly with you and that large head of yours!


Thanks for all your concern but you don't work here so as much as you think it does, your opinion matters little if at all.

You seem like a bright fellow so take the hint, you don't matter so run along.

Interesting and yet so typical. When you run out of cognetive arguments or debates you attack the messenger. No problem becasue in the end it is not I that has to live with the lousy pay and benefits.

What is really cute is that even though you work there, your opinion matters even less. Chew on that for awhile.

 

[B6Driver]

What was that?
Did somebody say something?
Oh well................

 

[IB6 UB9]

...becasue in the end it is not I that has to live with the lousy pay and benefits.

What is really cute is that even though you work there, your opinion matters even less.

(1) Where do you work? (for the second or third time)
(2) What airline has employees where their opinion matters? (I know that is for the second time)

 

[JP4user]

Maybe, but you are falling into a category of folks who have little to contribute but the wishing of doom and gloom on us. I am yet to figure that out. At any one time in this country there are 20-30 times the aircraft that we have in the air, and the crew is working for less and with work rules that are less as well...yet you would gladly see us in the unemployment line, many of us for the second or third time. I would be willing to bet the 6 pack I am about to enjoy that you have no idea what our lifestyle is like over here; you heard something from someone and jumped on the bash-wagon. Until you enlighten me as to why you feel this way I can only assume you are not unlike that intersection in ORD that sends his love so frequently. People who wish for the failure of others lack character. Your turn.

If you really want to think I know nobody over there that is your perogative.
I only started on this thread with a snippet of information about a factual event within the industry. Aside from that, there is no doom and gloom. Everything is going to work out just hunky dory with your crew hotel. With luck it won't earn the nickname of "the barracks" as it did with BI.

The only thing I would glady see is what has already been discussed. Get your 190 rates up. Quit screwing with flight and duty time limits and try and help reverse the ills of the industry. I don't want to see anybody unemployed or underemployed. I am just as disgusted with ALPA and their behavior and lack of stones within the legacy carriers.

While your comparisions of 20 - 30 times the number of aircraft and the other blowhard's characterization of a 6 year old airline, the simple fact is legacy managements have been pressuring the rank and file to mold into your business model and cost structure.

With ilk like 2 stroke boom within your who will jump at table scraps and defend them to the death, change will be difficult.

 

[JP4user]

What was that?
Did somebody say something?
Oh well................

I see you are parroting Jet Blue management again. Get used to it, it will be the same thing you hear when you discuss raising the 190 rates.

Run along now....there is a vat of kool aide that is brimming over.

 

[JP4user]

(1) Where do you work? (for the second or third time)
(2) What airline has employees where their opinion matters? (I know that is for the second time)

1) Not pertinent but I basically already answered the question.

2) According to some of your own experts, I guess just at Jet Blue.

 

[Lake Alice]

If you did indeed get out of the industry you did it for your own reasons and insinuating B6 had anything to do with that proves YOUR ignorance. Also, when other company's pay less and provide less benefits yet you single out only one company, well again, your ignorance reigns supreme. Lastly, if you can present factual information rather than 6th grade slander then do so. People will listen and make educated responses. Other than that throwing around intro to econ terms doesnt do a whole lot for your credibility or your argument.