B6 Hiring

[Smarta$$]

It must be hard being the smartest-A$$ out there.

The point was that he made an excellent post noting facts and finished it off with a completely emotional statment.

Your just as much of a hinderance to this process as linepilot and 50retard...

It wasn't an emotional response. It was a response based on experience. Experience you and your friends have coordinated and provided for him.

 

[BeachBummer]

Ah, ya got me!

We are secretly plotting the demise of jetblue via unionization! We are mean and speak frankly... what thugs!

LOL

 

[Smarta$$]

That's not what I said.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

ASA: I am also new here at JB (2 years) I love working here and hate the fact that we need a union. Unfortunately the FAA and merger mania that is the airline industry requires it. You really only have to ask yourself two questions that will help you make your decision.

1. You will mess up one day. We all will, and it can happen in a second. When the FAA comes after your certificate and you get called into the Chief pilots office, they will be looking out for the company's best interest and not yours. Do you want to walk into that office all alone, or do you want an entire ALPA legal team walking in with you to speak on your behalf. I know what I want.

2. When JB is merged or bought some day, and statistically speaking this is a 90-95% certainty over the course of the 30 years you have left of this career. Do you want the ELT (who has A LOT to lose or gain in the deal) negotiating for you and your best interest, or do you want a 3rd party that has your interest at least in mind when negotiating for you. Again I know what I want.

So here are two completely unemotional reasons to vote yes to ALPA. Look I want to have a long career here at JB. I just want to do it with as many protections that I can possibly get. To vote no to ALPA is putting your career and your family at unneccesary risk for very little gain. So don't listen to anything else from anyone else. These two no emotion facts alone are enough reason over any other for you to vote in ALPA.

I am sure I will get bashed by the blow hards because I like JB and want JB to succeede. The simple truth though is ALPA is an absolute neccesity as a professional pilot in todays highly legislated and regulated world.

Choose wisely and based on facts my friend.

I'm in the top 16% of JBs' sen list. 10+ years.
I agree 100%.
No amount of free pizza will sway me.
No "Leading Edge" marketing crap will brainwash me.
No Shark Posters will scare me.
No "targeted campaigns" by a hired PR firm (paid for out of our profit sharing, btw) will snow me. (They won an industry award for THAT Snow Job, btw)
Just facts.
The facts are obvious, if you care enough to objectively evaluate them.
No emotion, just business.
Just like our management.

As I recently told a friend: If you NEED a job, JB is OK, day-to-day.
A career? NO WAY.
Post CBA?
Maybe.
Evaluate. Don't pick your career on a "culture", that turns on a dime and depends on whether you're a "team player".
A CBA isn't a guarantee, but it's better than a smiling guy in "Business Casual". "We're all just good guys here, right?" And "Hey, no hats here, can I buy you lunch?".

Come to JB, but continue to send out the apps.
At this point.

I'm not negative, just realistic, after 25 years in the 121 world.

Now, GET OFF MY LAWN! :laugh:

 

[BeachBummer]

That's not what I said.

No you didn't it's what he said, but you so blindly defended.

 

[Smarta$$]

No you didn't it's what he said, but you so blindly defended.

That's not what he said, and I don't do anything blindly.

 

[terryhfly]

Anyone from Tuesdays interview hear anything yet?

 

[Splert]

Take 5 minutes and compare CBA vacations and your FSM.

The FSM allocates only 2 weeks per pilot. Doesn't matter if your seat has 10 year FOs the FSM allocates only 2 weeks vacation for that 10 year pilot.

PSIA (peer set industry average) is 26 days vs the FSM 14 for a 10 year pilot.

This allocation affects the 1st year pilot because the FSM has a one pass vacation bidding system. First pilot on the list can bid and be awarded 6 weeks which is the allocation for 3 pilots. By the time the bidding system get to your group there is little to no vacation left to be awarded. This has zero to do with seniority and instead has 100% to do with the failure of the Direct Relationship to have a reasonable allocation, distribution, PTV accrual and bank and a multi pass bidding system.

BTW the DR has been working on this since 2007 with the PCRB and FSM Working Groups and the current PVC.

No where fast is the Direct Relationship.

Also go the the pilot page on hellojetblue and add JBPA to the end of .com/pilots/jbpa and review the history that you missed and the promises made and failure of leadership to deliver. Nothing out of reach. Just average compensation. Very reasonable requests ignored over the past 8 years.

The DR is a failure and you are just the latest on the block to give it more time. It is part of the plan to stall and stall and stall and then 10 years later it is 10 years later and 1/3 of your career is over.

There's nothing wrong with liking status quo, and not liking ALPA. That isn't an emotional position. That's an actual position. It isn't necessarily set in stone that things will improve with ALPA.

Many of you are more "emotional" than the no voters. Look at your angry, aggressive responses when a no voter posts on here. That isn't emotional?

The fact is that there are two sides. Both are legitimate. Some can be swayed, and some cannot. It's is just like any other political situation on the planet. Die hard yes vs. die hard no, with the middle ground up for grabs.

Guess you are not going to look it up?

 

[ballsdeep123]

It's not about ALPA. Its CBA vs. PEA/FSM At the end of the day which one will protect/compensate you better

 

[Fins Up]

It's not about ALPA. Its CBA vs. PEA/FSM At the end of the day which one will protect/compensate you better

Absolutely. In this industry you have to believe that at some point you will need things that a CBA will afford you that a PEA/docs will not. Regardless of ALPA's checkered past, I want their medical and legal services. Plus, if I woke up tomorrow to a company email stating we were bought by/merged with another airline, I know I would be completely screwed if all I had in my corner were some flimsy, untested documents. New company could tell me to take my pea and hit the street. How am I going to fight that?

 

[Flyer1015]

email stating we were bought by/merged with another airline, I know I would be completely screwed if all I had in my corner were some flimsy, untested documents. New company could tell me to take my pea and hit the street. How am I going to fight that?

Because ALPA will do a fine job for you in a merger? Ask TWA or America West pilots how that worked out.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

Jeez, Flyer.
I don't know about TWA, but ALPA was stymied at Airways by a vote to replace them with USAPA. The Airways guys outnumbered the AWA guys, so it was done.
They thought that by replacing ALPA that they would get DOH seniority instead of the binding arbitration that they agreed to. Putting pilots furloughed for years into AWA seats, of course.
Sound fair?
Apparently you think that the JB ELT will back your seniority instead of their multi-million payouts?
Really?

 

[Fins Up]

Because ALPA will do a fine job for you in a merger? Ask TWA or America West pilots how that worked out.

TWA was another time. We have TWAers who already votes Yes and I believe one or two on the OC. I'll take a CBA over the DR any day and getting one any other way (i.e. in-house) is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[JJthejetplane]

Because ALPA will do a fine job for you in a merger? Ask TWA or America West pilots how that worked out.

I wonder how it would of worked for them if they were left to fight that battle alone, without a seat at the table. I imagine a hell of a lot worse! I don't know much about America West and their deal, but I do know that TWA was in pretty sorry shape going in to that deal to start with.

 

[Flyer1015]

Correct me if I'm wrong, even if an airline is non-union, a staple cannot happen in a merger scenario with the current laws.

 

[Flyer1015]

TWA was another time. We have TWAers who already votes Yes and I believe one or two on the OC. I'll take a CBA over the DR any day and getting one any other way (i.e. in-house) is a disaster waiting to happen.

Confused by that last statement, are you saying in-house union (like a Jetblue Pilot Association) would be bad/disaster waiting to happen?

 

[Fins Up]

Confused by that last statement, are you saying in-house union (like a Jetblue Pilot Association) would be bad/disaster waiting to happen?

Yes. No money and no resources. It would take a huuuge chunk of money to get started. I think it would get bled dry just like Airtran's NPA.

 

[wt219200]

Yes. No money and no resources. It would take a huuuge chunk of money to get started. I think it would get bled dry just like Airtran's NPA.

I don't work there but I agree. An in-house union just doesn't make sense. Say what you will about ALPA but you guys will vote in the guys that represent you. It doesn't have to mean a broken labor-management relationship.

 

[B6Driver]

I wonder how it would of worked for them if they were left to fight that battle alone, without a seat at the table. I imagine a hell of a lot worse! I don't know much about America West and their deal, but I do know that TWA was in pretty sorry shape going in to that deal to start with.

ALPA wanted their dues money to the last day and the TWA pilots had more than a wish for honest representation in return, they had a legal right to it and according to the outcome of the court case, ALPA did not deliver.
ALPA wanted something different and left the pilots of TWA, a founding member of the organization bye the way to fend for themselves as if they were alone.
Very sad indeed.

 

[Splert]

Because ALPA will do a fine job for you in a merger? Ask TWA or America West pilots how that worked out.

You mean Airways ...

Also what was the final integration of TWA and AA?

Numbers please not drive by.