B-717 Questions

[Formula1]

To all of you currently flying the 717 and to those who have flown it in the past:

What is your over all opinion of the 717?

Does it have EICAS messaging on the center screen for system failures or faults?

Can you pull up system displays (system pages) like on the airbus or B-777? i.e.- electrical, pressurization, hydraulic, flight controls?

How is the V-NAV, good or bad?

Auto-land?

Average cruise speed?

Max altitude?

What is the max take-off and landing weight?

Average fuel burn per hour?



No, this is not an oral for a checkride- just curious as we may be flying these things in the near future at ATA.

Thanks in advance for your info.

 

[TWA Dude]

What is your over all opinion of the 717?

Awesome!

Does it have EICAS messaging on the center screen for system failures or faults?
Yes

Can you pull up system displays (system pages) like on the airbus or B-777? i.e.- electrical, pressurization, hydraulic, flight controls?
Yes

How is the V-NAV, good or bad?
As good as any

Auto-land?
As good as any

Average cruise speed?
.76, 440KTAS

Max altitude?
370

What is the max take-off and landing weight?
Varies with operator. Typically 121,000 MTOW and I forgot MLW.

Average fuel burn per hour?
3800Lb/hr at 370, call it 4000 for average.

Best 100-120 seat airplane out there, bar none. If you get 'em, enjoy!

Dude

 

[Formula1]

Muchas Gracias!

TWA Dude,

Thanks for the quick response and all the info- sounds like you enjoyed the airplane. I am looking foreward to flying it if we do get them.

What are you flying over at America West?

 

[STL717]

More numbers

and.....with a light load!!

Engine start to FL370 - 2,000 total fuel burn
Time to climb to FL 370 - 15 minutes
Cruise fuel flow - 1800/hr per side
===================================
Wing clear ice problem solved
No ADF - NO NDB approaches
Large APU
Large PACKS - one pack will cool the cabin on a humid, 95 degree day at the gate
No instruments hiding behind the control column

 

[Ponchus pilot]

I've heard it has problems when it comes to W/B, is this true?

 

[XGmaninGA]

MLW is 104,000 at AirTran. Although I understand that TWA operated them at higher weights.

What W/B problems? I've been on the airplane for three years and I haven't seen any problems. Of course in unusual situations you might have to move people or bags. Such as that last minute MX COMAT load of boat anchors to be shipped to the next station.

 

[TWA Dude]

Re: Muchas Gracias!

What are you flying over at America West?

I'm in newhire training for the Bus.

Dude

 

[NZCHooverboy]

TWA Dude,

Does the 717 have the same flight control system as the DC-9? Of all the big jets I've flown, the 9 was the most nimble.

 

[Ty Webb]

I would agree with everything here except the "cruise fuel flow" which I would put closer to 2200 lbs/hr/side at the typical altitudes/weights/speeds we fly.

Also, all flight controls are cable, except for the rudder, which has a cable backup.

Hence the name the "McDonnell Douglas Cable Company".

 

[atldc9]

The flight controls are basically the same as the DC-9, witha few exceptions. The elevator now has a redundant cable loop, in case of an uncontained engine failure. The spoilers are now electrically activated hydraulic assembly, instead of cable activated hydraulic spoiler mixing. The aileron trim is now operated by individual electric motors on each trim tab. I remember being told they took out 600 lbs of cables over the DC-9.

As for weights, not much of an issue. The gear is from the MD-80, and is structurally rated at 110,000 lbs. We bought the 104,000 lb ldg weight to reduce landing fees. MZFW is 98,000 lbs, and agsin thta is not much of an issue. 117 pax with one bag each is around 26,000 lbs. Most of our aircraft are in the 68,000 BOW, so that leaves most full flights at around 94,000 lb ZFW's.

On some really short legs, with long alternates, you can get into MLW issues, but that is really a factor of guys taking too much fuel.

As for Autolands, some good, some bad, but all on the centerline +- 500 feet of the fixed distance markers. We should have CAT III a by the end of the summer, supposedly. (We have CAT II -1200 RVR autolands now)

AS for speeds, at most of our weights we operate at 310, 330, or 350. We have to be really light, under about 96,000 lBs to get to 370. At our typical altitudes, we fly ECON speeds based on our profiles, and our speeds ange from M 0.751 to M 0.778. Obviously, that is faster into the headwinds, and slower with the tailwinds.

 

[zoohead]

Here in Oz we operate them pretty much the same way, except we use a higher Cost Index...ends up with us cruising around at .78 - .79 the majority of the time.

We have a few light 117,000 MTOW/ 104,000 MLW models, with around 8 ex-TWA higher weight models.

Typically we cruise around at FL300-350 (we do the RVSM here down under) and fuel burn is the same around 2000kgs/hr...4400lbs

We're getting Airbuses soon for Jetstar and the guys who used to fly the 9's are disappointed to say goodbye to the 717. It's an awesome machine, definately very lucky to be flying it.

 

[AA717driver]

I never trusted the VNAV for descents. I would figure on a 2:1(with no real tailwind) and the VNAV would start later than I would have. Occasionally, you would get to within a couple thousand feet of the BOD and it would give you a 'Add Drag' message. Great!

Still my favorite airplane. I miss it.TC

 

[Formula1]

Lots of good info

Thanks once again to all those that responded to my original post on the B-717. You have provided lots of good info.

 

[-9Capt]

The VNAV works perfect assuming the winds aloft forcast is correct and was programed into the FMS prior to starting down. It will cross a fix right on altitude and speed, +/-0.

I love the airplane. I flew the -9 for about 5 years and have been on the 717 just over a year.

They fixed and updated a few systems (hyd, pneu, ice, no periscope, etc). It feels the same to hand-fly.

The FMS is not very user friendly. It took me (no prior glass time) a while to get comfortable, but once you do it's like early retirement.

 

[TWA Dude]

The gear is from the MD-80, and is structurally rated at 110,000 lbs.

Actually, the gear is unique to the 717. Unlike the DC9/MD80 it's pretty stiff, too, making firmer touchdowns more likely. Incidentally it's made by Israel Aircraft Industries.

Dude

 

[TWA Dude]

The FMS is not very user friendly. It took me (no prior glass time) a while to get comfortable, but once you do it's like early retirement.

There are no "user-friendly" FMS. Look for better Windows-based FMS in the future. I hope.

Dude

 

[TonyC]

Look for better Windows-based FMS in the future.

I look forward to the "blue screen of death" right after takeoff.

 

[airbaker]

There are no "user-friendly" FMS. Look for better Windows-based FMS in the future. I hope.

Actually, I think our friends flying on the corporate side have us beat. I flew a corporate jet with a Universal FMS and can say that it kicked as# over the Honeywell system in the Boeings and Airbus.

 

[DIAMONDDD]

I can see it now

I look forward to the "blue screen of death" right after takeoff.

There you are, on a CAT II approach and the screen suddenly appears

"This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down"

Sweet!

 

[Newjetjockey]

"This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down"

You forgot:

"Would you like to send an error report?"