AWAC flying for united again

[WhiteCloud]

I heard they are retrofitting them with mountain deflectors.

Good stuff! WhiteCloud (half breed pilot)

 

[PBRstreetgang]

SkyWest is getting the 900 engines on the rest of the 700 orders and starting to retrofit previous 700's with the new 900 engine......hmm........makes you wonder......

PS. I like Beer, it makes me a jolly good fellow.

I love it, SKYW allways buys the small engine then upgrades to the larger engine after the fact, oh well Jerry said once that "he didn't see any market for 50+ seat jet aircraft"
Wadda you know
PBR

 

[Morning Wood]

I love it, SKYW allways buys the small engine then upgrades to the larger engine after the fact, oh well Jerry said once that "he didn't see any market for 50+ seat jet aircraft"
Wadda you know
PBR

What's always? The 200 didn't have a bigger/better engine when it
was bought. Skywest is the only operator of the Hot and High
engine on that airplane now. The ER mod and -B engine on
the Brasilia was done for Skywest. Not sure how one airplane's
engine make it "always".

 

[Beechnut]

What's always? The 200 didn't have a bigger/better engine when it
was bought. Skywest is the only operator of the Hot and High
engine on that airplane now. The ER mod and -B engine on
the Brasilia was done for Skywest. Not sure how one airplane's
engine make it "always".

What are you calling the high and hot 200 engine that SkyWest is the only operator of? Is there something bigger than the CF-34-3B1 for a 200?

S.

 

[rtmcfi]

The CF-34-3B1's are available in two versions.
Basic (0005)
Hot & High (0068)

The temps for flat rated takeoff thrust are a little bit different. The basic is flat rated at sea level at ISA + 7.8C.
The Hot & High is flat rated at sea level at ISA +15C

That is the only difference I can find. The H&H's do seem to hang on to the climb a bit longer than the basic versions.

Source: PRM Powerplant 20-2

 

[viper548]

I love it, SKYW allways buys the small engine then upgrades to the larger engine after the fact, oh well Jerry said once that "he didn't see any market for 50+ seat jet aircraft"
Wadda you know
PBR

I think the -900 engine is a new option. I thought I read somewhere that SkyWest is the launch customer for the -700 with the -900 engine.

 

[91100 100 set]

This may be incredibly dumb or ignorant of me to throw this out there, but does the fact that the 146 has 4 engines versus the 2 on everything else have anything to do with the high altitude airport certification things? If we are talking about engine out certification requirements, does that mean the 146 would still have 3 engines turning, versus just one?

Or it is something else entirely that makes the 146 so difficult to replace on such markets?

 

[viper548]

This may be incredibly dumb or ignorant of me to throw this out there, but does the fact that the 146 has 4 engines versus the 2 on everything else have anything to do with the high altitude airport certification things? If we are talking about engine out certification requirements, does that mean the 146 would still have 3 engines turning, versus just one?

Or it is something else entirely that makes the 146 so difficult to replace on such markets?

That is correct. Data is based on losing 1 engine.

 

[flyjumpseat]

What's always? The 200 didn't have a bigger/better engine when it
was bought. Skywest is the only operator of the Hot and High
engine on that airplane now. The ER mod and -B engine on
the Brasilia was done for Skywest. Not sure how one airplane's
engine make it "always".

The first 200's SkyWest got were NOT the Hot-and-High engines currently on the birds now, and the climb performance was terrible. But when they did come out, SkyWest WAS the launch customer for the HH on the 200.

So you would be more correct in saying, when the HH became available, SkyWest immediately changed all new birds ordered with HH engines. And the original engines were replaced with the HH's.

If the HH's were available when SkyWest originally brought on the 200 - who knows if we would have gotten them or not.

Even right now our fleet is a mix of engines - CF34-3A1, CF34-3B1, CF34-3B1HH due to purchases of 'used' birds.

If the 900 engine is going to be available for the 700's... I say bring 'em on.

But you're definately right MW - people should use the "always" a little more carefully.

 

[Beechnut]

How is it you know then that SkyWest is the ONLY operator of the high and hot engine?

S.

 

[FL280]

Sounds like the same story that skywest told UA about the EMB120's, oh the 120 yeah,yeah, we can fly the mountain towns......LOL....... We have the engine "mod" I guess with that "mod" thats why the 120 can carry 15 pax out of DRO..MTJ..GJT..............LOL............................................

 

[loflyer]

This may be incredibly dumb or ignorant of me to throw this out there, but does the fact that the 146 has 4 engines versus the 2 on everything else have anything to do with the high altitude airport certification things? If we are talking about engine out certification requirements, does that mean the 146 would still have 3 engines turning, versus just one?

Or it is something else entirely that makes the 146 so difficult to replace on such markets?

What makes the 146 so difficult to replace in ASE is that fact that it can fly SLOW which allows it to turn around in a valley without hitting a mountain (if a balked landing/etc becomes necessary). The fact that the 146 has 4 engines sure helps helps in this area. Because as we all know, if you take an 2 engine airplane and loose one...flying slow is usually a problem; and if you can't fly at a slow enough airspeed, your turning radius won't be tight enough to avoid a mountain.

 

[loflyer]

Sounds like the same story that skywest told UA about the EMB120's, oh the 120 yeah,yeah, we can fly the mountain towns......LOL....... We have the engine "mod" I guess with that "mod" thats why the 120 can carry 15 pax out of DRO..MTJ..GJT..............LOL............................................

Are those the same mods that GLA has?? Those weren't worth a .... darn either.

 

[Morning Wood]

The first 200's SkyWest got were NOT the Hot-and-High engines currently on the birds now, and the climb performance was terrible. But when they did come out, SkyWest WAS the launch customer for the HH on the 200.

So you would be more correct in saying, when the HH became available, SkyWest immediately changed all new birds ordered with HH engines. And the original engines were replaced with the HH's.

If the HH's were available when SkyWest originally brought on the 200 - who knows if we would have gotten them or not.

Even right now our fleet is a mix of engines - CF34-3A1, CF34-3B1, CF34-3B1HH due to purchases of 'used' birds.

If the 900 engine is going to be available for the 700's... I say bring 'em on.

But you're definately right MW - people should use the "always" a little more carefully.

The climb performance is still terrible when ISA deviations are above +15.
Bombardier still does not offer data for ISA+25. Makes a lot of sense.
The max temp allowed is ISA+35 which is fine and dandy until you get
in the air and then have no climb data.

 

[CSR]

This may be incredibly dumb or ignorant of me to throw this out there, but does the fact that the 146 has 4 engines versus the 2 on everything else have anything to do with the high altitude airport certification things? If we are talking about engine out certification requirements, does that mean the 146 would still have 3 engines turning, versus just one?

Or it is something else entirely that makes the 146 so difficult to replace on such markets?

If you are thinking of the TERPS requirements regarding engine out procedures 2 engine vs 4 engine, the 4 engine TERPS requirements are actually more strict. I don't remember the exact numbers. They were close but not the same.

 

[J32driver]

This may be incredibly dumb or ignorant of me to throw this out there, but does the fact that the 146 has 4 engines versus the 2 on everything else have anything to do with the high altitude airport certification things? If we are talking about engine out certification requirements, does that mean the 146 would still have 3 engines turning, versus just one?

Or it is something else entirely that makes the 146 so difficult to replace on such markets?

130kts and 30 degrees of bank while manuevering in the valley. Thats why its a difficult airplane to replace.

 

[dbert]

The first 200's SkyWest got were NOT the Hot-and-High engines currently on the birds now, and the climb performance was terrible. But when they did come out, SkyWest WAS the launch customer for the HH on the 200.

So you would be more correct in saying, when the HH became available, SkyWest immediately changed all new birds ordered with HH engines. And the original engines were replaced with the HH's.

If the HH's were available when SkyWest originally brought on the 200 - who knows if we would have gotten them or not.

Even right now our fleet is a mix of engines - CF34-3A1, CF34-3B1, CF34-3B1HH due to purchases of 'used' birds.

If the 900 engine is going to be available for the 700's... I say bring 'em on.

But you're definately right MW - people should use the "always" a little more carefully.

The first 200's SkyWest operated were H&H. The first CRJs SkyWest operated were not 200, but 100's. The only difference between a 100 and a 200 is the -3A1 vs. the -3B1 engine. 3A1s were the only option back when we bought the SkyWest "classics" (403-413).

I’m not sure there is an actual physical difference between a straight 3B1 and a 3B1 H&H. I think it’s just $$$ to load the H&H performance database software. It’s like the difference between a LR and an ER, just $$$ and you are blessed to operate it that way.

The “classics” were upgraded to 200’s via a contract agreement (credit) with one of the orders for several new 200’s. Your right about now having (again) a mixed fleet (3A1/3B1) after the purchase of the Comair aircraft. Those came with “A” engines and there was no subsidy to upgrade them to “B’ engines so we are utilizing the life that they have/had and then replacing them with B’s. I’m not sure if the Indy aircraft have H&H software or not but they are B’s.

As for the 900 (-8C5) engine on the 700 (-8C1), yes that will happen. GE wants to manufacture just one engine. They will not have any more performance because on the 700 because it’s all about FADEC. It could, but you got to know where to search on eBay for the mod chip…..kidding.

 

[flap operator]

The point is that the 146/avro is the only 121 certified jet a/c that can get into and out of ASE! UA is screwed without Air Willy and the mighty Bacasaurus jets. Blowjets will not be flying any CRJ70s into ASE under the UA banner, nor will any other airline fly jets there unless it's a 146 or avro.

FO