AWAC and USAir

[jparks]

WOW this is going to get interesting.........I am not even sure what to think.

 

[N8Dogg]

Now this is a good example of management thinking outside of the box. Good luck guys!

 

[rtmcfi]

Do you have even an iota of proof that AWAC's performance really is any better than the "cheapest product"? That's a popular viewpoint, but the stats I saw out of Dulles showed that AWAC wasn't doing any better than anyone else, regardless of price.

Disclaimer- Haven't seen these numbers in a few months...

AWAC is leading every other United Express carrier in on time flights and controllable completion. As of Feb 18th, AWAC is operating its flights on time 74.3% of the time, compared to SkyWest 69.9%, Mesa 66.1%, TransStates 67.6% and Shuttle America 68.7%



In controllable completion AWAC is sitting at 99.5%, SkyWest 98.9%, Mesa 99.1%, TransStates 99.0% and Shuttle America 98.3%.

 

[91100 100 set]

I don't know much, but I really doubt that on-time performance and completion factor is the key to most of these decisions. I'm sure it's a part, yes, but it all comes down to the almighty dollar in the end, and probably in ways far more complicated than simply the hourly rates of the pilots. This is in no way intended to be a dig or flame, but I can remember countless times hearing about poor performance from specific companies that seem to have no problem retaining contracts regardless of performance.

 

[rtmcfi]

I don't know much, but I really doubt that on-time performance and completion factor is the key to most of these decisions. I'm sure it's a part, yes, but it all comes down to the almighty dollar in the end, and probably in ways far more complicated than simply the hourly rates of the pilots. This is in no way intended to be a dig or flame, but I can remember countless times hearing about poor performance from specific companies that seem to have no problem retaining contracts regardless of performance.

Sad but true..........

 

[BeCareful!]

I wonder if this might United positioning itself for rapid growth if UAir would go chapter 7.

BL

Ya know, the only place I've been reading about a US Air liquidation lately is here, on the almighty FlightInfo.Com website.

"Dude, it must be about to happen! I read about it on FlightInfo.com!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[DirkkDiggler]

On time completion and all that other performance stuff absolutely has to do with the almighty dollar. You're right that on the surface, a cheaper airline like Mesa looks like a better bet than a more expensive competitor. However, It costs United something like $100 for every minute a flight is late pushing back from the gate. That $100 shows up on accounting records and certainly does factor into their decision making process. If you fly through LGA ever and get a chance to check out the bulletin board in the hallway outside ops, you'll see a list of costs associated with late flights, lost bags, etc.

 

[Rottweiller]

Do you have even an iota of proof that AWAC's performance really is any better than the "cheapest product"? That's a popular viewpoint, but the stats I saw out of Dulles showed that AWAC wasn't doing any better than anyone else, regardless of price.

Disclaimer- Haven't seen these numbers in a few months...

YES - Just looked at the performance figures for last month that the company puts out to us from UA. Last month we exceeded the performance goals in all 38 measured categories and in those 38 categories we were 1st in 34 and second in 4.

 

[I.P. Freley]

AWAC is leading every other United Express carrier in on time flights and controllable completion. As of Feb 18th, AWAC is operating its flights on time 74.3% of the time, compared to SkyWest 69.9%, Mesa 66.1%, TransStates 67.6% and Shuttle America 68.7%



In controllable completion AWAC is sitting at 99.5%, SkyWest 98.9%, Mesa 99.1%, TransStates 99.0% and Shuttle America 98.3%.

And this is for what time period? "As of Feb 18th" doesn't mean much unless you tell us when that period started. That could be a week, the month, whatever.

Either way, these things have a way of changing order week-to-week, month-to-month. The numbers are so close I don't think you can make a compelling argument that the "cheaper operators" are that far off. Frankly, EVERY operator on there has a pretty crappy "controllable" on-time performance percentage, including AWAC.

And why don't we see Chautauqua in those numbers?

 

[TWheat61]

Here are some numbers, Skywest Numbers are very close to Air Wisconsins, Mesa is between Air Wisc and Chautauqua.

January #'s from United
Air Wisconsin Chautaqua Shuttle America
Departures 494 133 61
On Time + 0 80.9% 69.2 58.4
On Time + 5 82.5 73.2 60
Star OT + 0 89 80.3 66.7
Arrivals OT + 0 67.6 54.5 44.4
Arrivals OT +14 82.8 75.1 58.4
Completion Rate 98.6 99.6 97
Controllable Completion 99.7 99.6 97.4

 

[WhiteCloud]

YES - Just looked at the performance figures for last month that the company puts out to us from UA. Last month we exceeded the performance goals in all 38 measured categories and in those 38 categories we were 1st in 34 and second in 4.

Those look like pretty good performance rankings for AWAC. Now....lets compare AWAC days off and second year pay and benefits and whatever other aspect of our pilot contract you want to (IP) with these other carriers.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Now....lets compare AWAC days off and second year pay and benefits and whatever other aspect of our pilot contract you want to (IP) with these other carriers.

Is this directed at ME?

 

[WhiteCloud]

Is this directed at ME?

Yup. While were tossing figures out it seems pretty relevant to see how good pilots have it at each of the competing companies. Is TSA, MESA, Shuttle A or Chautauqua a better deal?

 

[N4niner206]

Yes. Lets also compare the contract price per seat mile or flight that the mainline (US, UA) carriers pay the various regionals (Whisky, SHuttle America, CHQ, Mesa, Skywest etc). ANyone have these numbers?

There is a lot that goes into determing whether it is more cost effective to utilize Air Wisconsin vs CHQ or the others.

If performance was always the definitive factor, we'd all be driving in the best, most expensive cars. If I owned a BMW vs a Chevy, you bet **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed right I'd expect the beamer to outperform the chevy in 34 of 38 aspects!!!! Doesnt mean that its MY best option though.

Im anything but an expert, but several of the stats seem so close its hard to establish any winner by a landslide. United or US have to determine if the margin of superior performance is worth the margin of the cost difference. Especially for airlines in or on the verge of bancruptcy, I would think that the COST of the contract is a HUGE part of the decision.

Anyone have approximate current contract costs for each carrier? I know the submitted bids are probably not known.

 

[N4niner206]

Relevance

Sad truth is I dont think United will give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** how well the regional partners' pilots are compensated. In this business, if it doesn't effect their bottom line, they're not going to give a rat's ass. I'd say its a safe bet that the pay and QOL is much better at AirWis but I don't know if thats going to be relevant to their codeshare partners.

 

[I.P. Freley]

How would I know how good the pilots have it at any of those companies, or which is "a better deal", unless I worked at all of them? You can read the threads relating to these kinds of points just as well as I can.

I don't recall mentioning anything about your pilot contract, so I'm not sure how it is this turned into everyone pulling out their weiners comparing days off and that kind of nonsense. I have no doubt that AWAC is one of the better companies to work for, but that's not what I was getting at.

 

[N4niner206]

I wonder if there are former Pan Am and Eastern pilots who look back in joy that they were once amongst the best paid airline pilots.

 

[N4niner206]

Yeah, its funny how this topic always reverts back to the "who has it best" pi$$ing contest. Gotta have something to fall back on I guess!

In either case, I for one hope that everything works out and that AirWis keeps their United flying, and receives the loan cash back from US due to a successful exit. Dreams can come true.

 

[N4niner206]

From the Q & A:

Does this agreement preclude other potential investors from outbidding Eastshore Aviation?
No. Other interested parties will have ample opportunity to participate in the US Airways restructuring as the process of the company's filing a Plan of Reorganization proceeds.

Anyone know of any other major players in the bidding process? I know that J.O. left for Washington D.C. on Friday... and had heard rumors a while back that Mesa was going to do something similar. At the same time I had heard that Mesa was trying to "minimize exposure" to US incase of liquidation. Any truth to this? And any other airlines/investment firms putting up competitive bids that anyone knows of? This is going to be just like the ATA ordeal I think... gonna come down to a buzzer shot?

 

[WhiteCloud]

Sad truth is I dont think United will give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** how well the regional partners' pilots are compensated. In this business, if it doesn't effect their bottom line, they're not going to give a rat's ass. I'd say its a safe bet that the pay and QOL is much better at AirWis but I don't know if thats going to be relevant to their codeshare partners.

Of course UAL doesn't give a crap about us and our QOL. I spent some time at one of the other code share companies and AWAC is totally different in the way pilots are treated. Unfortunately, treating employees respectfully, with regard to work rules and pay and benefits, costs money and that makes AWAC a target for low bidders.

 

[JI Gone OH]

Broaden Your Horizen's

Ya know, the only place I've been reading about a US Air liquidation lately is here, on the almighty FlightInfo.Com website.

"Dude, it must be about to happen! I read about it on FlightInfo.com!!!!!!!!!!"

Define lately for the verbally challenged....

 

[JI Gone OH]

Broaden Your Horizen's

Ya know, the only place I've been reading about a US Air liquidation lately is here, on the almighty FlightInfo.Com website.

"Dude, it must be about to happen! I read about it on FlightInfo.com!!!!!!!!!!"

Define lately for the verbally challenged....