AWA to Hawaii

[General Lee]

ETOPS---Engines Turn Or People Swim.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[OffHot]

Fly-n-hi, support your case please... both island carriers are bankrupt and the highest used frequent flyer miles are used to the islands.

 

[mdanno808]

Actually, Hawaiian Airlines is out of Bankruptcy and has had a string of profits for over a year and a half. Also, since Sept. 11, loads to Hawaii from the mainland have gone through the roof, and continue to climb. The fact is, that for many of the larger carriers, the Hawaii routes have been one of the few routes they have that continue to make them money. Having said that, the market is beginning to saturate with competition, which a year ago did not exist. North American, and ATA have steadily increased their service to the islands, while Hawaiian continues to vow that they plan on expanding their service as well. Now AWA will start to fly PHX and LAS to Hawaii. Is there enough traffic to keep everyone's seat's full? Who knows.


Also, the main difference between ETOPS and non-ETOPS 757's has to do with the Electrical systems. The ETOPS aircraft have an HMG (or HDG depending on your carrier's manuals) which is a hydraulic generator which acts as a backup in the event of a dual AC Bus failure. The rat is the same on all of the 757's, and just acts to give you Hydraulics in the event of a dual engine failure. The cost to re-wire non HDG equipped aircraft to make them ETOPS capable is pretty substantial.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Oh OK understand.

 

[Erndogg]

Fly-n-hi, support your case please... both island carriers are bankrupt and the highest frequent flyer used miles are used to the islands

Hawaiian Airlines is out of BK. During BK Hawaiian made substantial profits post 9-11 due to the drop off in international travel by Americans. Hawaii was a much safer place at the time and Hawaiian could raise fares due to the unforcasted demand that exsisted.
It took a couple of years for all the other carriers to realize the profit margins on Hawaiian routes were pretty good compared to other markets. Now the market is already saturated and fares have dropped to brake even or losing margins.
Hawaiian will feel the effects of losing it's code share with AWA- the feed it provided made our PHX-HNL flight one of our best $$$ makers. Hopefully AWA will keep the fares at a reasonable level so we can all make $$$.

 

[islandhopper]

It was the old expensive 747's, the war in Iraq, and bad planning that almost cost AWA it's shirt...not Hawaii.

I always get a kick out of the guys and gals who say that "Hawaii is a money losing market" or "Hawaii is only good for attracting frequent flyers". If you think that then you need to go do a little more research.

Just another example of why pilots should stay out of the business side of things and stick with the flying part.

Oh yeah the CEOs and pencil pushers are doing a fan-tabulous job without our help! Keep up the stellar work! tools!

 

[OffHot]

OK, HA is out of BK my bad, but earnings since 9-11, 02 (lost 57 mil), 03 (lost 49 mil), and in 04 (lost 75 mil). They are also losing money this year..(Information taken from HA Income statement on their web site). Your right that margins are decreasing and that maybe after 9-11 Hawaii was a safe and great place to vacation, but historicly the yields are less than average due to the frequent flyer, but this does have its upside since some travelers will fly AWA to get in their frequent flyer program to take advantage of the new destination. Only time will tell if it works or not.

 

[Dan Roman]

OK, HA is out of BK my bad, but earnings since 9-11, 02 (lost 57 mil), 03 (lost 49 mil), and in 04 (lost 75 mil). They are also losing money this year..(Information taken from HA Income statement on their web site). Your right that margins are decreasing and that maybe after 9-11 Hawaii was a safe and great place to vacation, but historicly the yields are less than average due to the frequent flyer, but this does have its upside since some travelers will fly AWA to get in their frequent flyer program to take advantage of the new destination. Only time will tell if it works or not.

Those were paper losses and write offs during the BK, 2004 had an operating profit in excess of 80 million. They have posted consistant operating profits ever since completing the transistion to a new fleet (717/767). They entered BK with just under $30 mil and exited with over $120 mil and all obligations paid in full. In addition, they were the first airline not to cancel their stock upon exiting BK. All stock holders didn't lose any shares and in fact the stock has done better in the last year than in the previous years.

 

[OffHot]

I give!! LOL

 

[Metro752]

Ya'll know that if anyone screws with Hawaiian Airlines stability, the Hawaiians will impose laws and all sorts of crazy regs on mainland competitors.

 

[Erndogg]

Ya'll know that if anyone screws with Hawaiian Airlines stability, the Hawaiians will impose laws and all sorts of crazy regs on mainland competitors.
__________________

Metro752,
Tell me what kind of laws/regs they could impose on AWA??? There have been a deluge of compacity added to the islands in the past year and I haven't seen any type of favortism given to the local carriers???
Everyone pays the same landing fees and negotiates their own ground hadling services with contractors.
Everything is a level playing field out here!!!! The strong survive an d the weak pack up and go away as AWA did in the early 90's.
The difference now is that they have the right A/C for the route 757 which can service all the outer islands from their hubs in LAS and PHX.
If anyone is at a disadvantage it is Hawaiian now in PHX-where AWA and SWA are king. You dont think the politicans in AZ are going to support HAL do ya??

 

[Freight Dog]

Everyone pays the same landing fees and negotiates their own ground hadling services with contractors.
Everything is a level playing field out here!!!! The strong survive an d the weak pack up and go away as AWA did in the early 90's.

Didn't HAL get relief on taxes and surcharges from the State in '93?

 

[islandhopper]

Didn't HAL get relief on taxes and surcharges from the State in '93?

Yes, more than once, as well as other "favors"... I wish we'd get some now but I guess whats good for the goose is not good for the gander...

 

[Erndogg]

Yes, more than once, as well as other "favors"... I wish we'd get some now but I guess whats good for the goose is not good for the gander...

__________________

I believe Aloha also has benefitted from waived landing fees also in the past, but they only lasted a 1-2 years .
Legistlation was passed in 93 to assist Hawaiian but they found an investor before any public $$ was put into the company.
Alot of the lobbying was done by a grassroots employee group-something the Aloha employees should consider.

 

[mdanno808]

Also an exemption from installing hush kits on the 200's.