AWA Pilots File Application For Preliminary Injunction

[Soulfly]

You folks won't be voting on anything for a long, long time.

I know Parker much better than you do, and you won't see a contract this decade. Period. There is nothing in it for Parker to get a TA on the table.

Thanks for being such a fair and impartial union and negotiating the Section 6 notice the west pilots filed prior the NMB election. Cynics......


And BTW, was DOH part of ALPA merger policy?

 

[Turtle21]

You folks won't be voting on anything for a long, long time.

I know Parker much better than you do, and you won't see a contract this decade. Period. There is nothing in it for Parker to get a TA on the table.

Thanks for being such a fair and impartial union and negotiating the Section 6 notice the west pilots filed prior the NMB election. Cynics......


And BTW, was DOH part of ALPA merger policy?

"You folks won't be voting on anything for a long, long time."


We folks.. We folks would be so much more.. unionlike.

As far as asking if DOH was part of ALPA merger policy.. you may as well ask if DOH is planned to be part of the new ALPA merger policy.. While both questions may have some entertainment value neither has any relevance.

Without an ALPA membership number I suspect ALPA wouldn't even be willing to discuss the difference between the two questions, unless of course it was in the context of a sales pitch to organize for ALPA. So objective and altruistic (err, unionesque?), they are.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I'm not sure where the turtle comes up with all this talk of "votes". Bradford has created a dictatorship that prevents votes on such important matter as base reps (or whatever USAPA has decided to call the equivalent) until he deems the time right. So while he derides the "Oligarchs" (poor choice of terms by the way) who actually accomplished alot for many pilots over the years, he defends the dictator of the junta that is USAPA and has yet to accomplish anything. The votes they did have on, west membership, they screwed up. It was simple enough for them to just follow their own Constitution, but alas they couldn't be bothered.

Without USAPA, there would be two separate sides and the west would be free to pursue their self-interests and comply with the original terms of the TA. However a flawed Single Carrier determination paved the way for the east to grab power.

USAPA is more akin to a street gang than a union, unfortunately they are legally compelled to serve the interests of their prey, an obligation they have successfully abrogated for 6 months. And like a street gang, they are marginalized even though they crave attention. No one takes them seriously, but dealing with them eats up precious resources.

Maybe enough on the east will get past their buyers remorse and oust Bradford et.al. and install real leaders who recognize the value of west participation in achieving their mutual goals. More likely a judge will see through USAPA's shenanigans and force them to carry out their legal responsibilities. The end of USAPA will surely follow.

 

[FR8mastr]

I think I saw some USAPA guys stealing milk from a baby over on the C concourse the other day. Luckily, for all of humanity, some humble and caring West pilots were helping out at a nearby orphanage during their lunch break. Upon hearing the news of this horrific act by those terrorists, they quickly finished up at the orphanage and ran out to a nearby farm, where they purchased some milk and rushed it back to the airport. I heard a rumor that they were being put up for a medal of valor from the city.

I figured if it was story time I could help out with some fiction of my own.

 

[Turtle21]

Bradford has created a dictatorship

"Oligarchs" (poor choice of terms

defends the dictator of the junta that is USAPA

a flawed Single Carrier determination paved the way for the east to grab power.

USAPA is more akin to a street gang than a union,

And like a street gang, they are marginalized even though they crave attention.


the value of west participation


The end of USAPA will surely follow.

If your entire proposition is an attempt to reject reality by redefining all the terms.. perhaps the issue is a habit of denial.

Don't forget to vote. And before you do consider that your vote is just one, like everyone else's.. Unless you are a privileged member of an oligarch. :laugh:

 

[Deadalus]

If your entire proposition is an attempt to reject reality by redefining all the terms.. perhaps the issue is a habit of denial.

Don't forget to vote. And before you do consider that your vote is just one, like everyone else's.. Unless you are a privileged member of an oligarch. :laugh:

Reject reality? Isn't that what you guys are good at when you don't get your way?

 

[Deadalus]

I think I saw some USAPA guys stealing milk from a baby over on the C concourse the other day. Luckily, for all of humanity, some humble and caring West pilots were helping out at a nearby orphanage during their lunch break. Upon hearing the news of this horrific act by those terrorists, they quickly finished up at the orphanage and ran out to a nearby farm, where they purchased some milk and rushed it back to the airport. I heard a rumor that they were being put up for a medal of valor from the city.

I figured if it was story time I could help out with some fiction of my own.

Hey if you're creating fiction, why didn't you throw in DOH.

 

[hateairlines]

Can't you all get along

 

[FDJ2]

"unionism, whatever that is."

That sums it up nicely. There isn't even a desire to have an agreed terms of basis (so long as a pretend union group of oligarchs came up with something more personally beneficial).

What was agreed upon was the process by which a seniority list would be obtained. Both the East and West agreed to the process. The East even got their first choice of arbitrators, Nicolau.

What happened was the East pilots didn't like the result of the arbitration and decided to form a sham union, not based on any common goals or principles, but in to attempt to evade an award they had agreed to be bound by. Its shameless, gross mob rule and everyone knows it.

BTW, unionism is about working together for a common goal and honoring your committments to your fellow union member.

 

[Turtle21]

What was agreed upon was the process by which a seniority list would be obtained. Both the East and West agreed to the process. The East even got their first choice of arbitrators, Nicolau.

What happened was the East pilots didn't like the result of the arbitration and decided to form a sham union, not based on any common goals or principles, but in to attempt to evade an award they had agreed to be bound by. Its shameless, gross mob rule and everyone knows it.

BTW, unionism is about working together for a common goal and honoring your committments to your fellow union member.

Quick, tell the NMB they messed up by certifying a sham. Let us know when they are gonna fix world hunger too.

And yes, unionism is about working together for a common goal (that is defined by a vote). If a "union" attempts to cram down something that was determined outside of the union then it isn't "common".

Exercise your vote!

 

[michael707767]

Quick, tell the NMB they messed up by certifying a sham. Let us know when they are gonna fix world hunger too.

The NMB certified a new union. They made no value judgement on the merits of that union, or the possibility of getting Nic overturned.

 

[Turtle21]

The NMB certified a new union. They made no value judgement on the merits of that union, or the possibility of getting Nic overturned.

Well you have a point... or two.

The NMB made a single carrier determination and certified the vote. It was the pilots (Not the NMB) who selected the CB&L they wanted. The NMB didn't declare it was a good union, they just certified that the pilots apparently thought so. And of course there are legal consequences to the vote (perhaps why ALPA was so averse to allowing votes).

As far as the NMB making no determination about overturning NIC, so what. AWAAPA hasn't ever asked for NIC to be implemented. They still are asking the judge to call it a negotiating position.

Fine. And then we'll vote. Its the union way.

 

[Bringupthebird]

The NMB certified a new union. They made no value judgement on the merits of that union, or the possibility of getting Nic overturned.

I think it can be proven that in terms of the craft and class of pilots employed by US Airways, that no single carrier exists. Since there was no legitimate basis for allowing a representation election, USAPA is indeed a sham by definition.

If the east wanted to bolt from ALPA, then they had every right. Dragging the AWA pilots into their sty was unconscionable.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Turtle-
Why is a vote on a contract more important than having the right to vote on your reps who will choose those responsible for negotiating that contract?

You seem to be begging for a concessionary cram down, before your illegitimate union is thrown off the property. How much are you willing to pay for your DOH list (in other words how much is a west job worth to you?)? Are you willingto take a 10% pay cut? 20%? Gutting remaining work rules?

How bad do you have to have it?

 

[Ocity]

Turtle-
Why is a vote on a contract more important than having the right to vote on your reps who will choose those responsible for negotiating that contract?

You seem to be begging for a concessionary cram down, before your illegitimate union is thrown off the property. How much are you willing to pay for your DOH list (in other words how much is a west job worth to you?)? Are you willingto take a 10% pay cut? 20%? Gutting remaining work rules?

How bad do you have to have it?

Many of these Eastholes are so blinded by arrogance that they'll take ANY contract with ANY concession just to feel in control of something. That's why the Class Action Lawsuits are against the company as well. They can't hang the "carrot" of DOH with a worse-than Mesa- Contract. The mere fact that those suits got filed is enough to take DOH off the table forever. No DOH, No USAPA.

 

[Soulfly]

"You folks won't be voting on anything for a long, long time."




As far as asking if DOH was part of ALPA merger policy.. you may as well ask if DOH is planned to be part of the new ALPA merger policy.. While both questions may have some entertainment value neither has any relevance.

Turtle, you still have not answered my question.

Was ALPA merger policy at the time the EAST and WEST MEC agreed to binding arbitration DOH?

Whether it may or not be is a moot point. Only what was part of the C&BL's at the time.

And you can spout unionism all you want. But a self appointed MEC for 18 months with not one elected WEST representative is an absolute joke. And if that isn't something you can't understand... Well there in lies the problem. Turn the tables for a moment. If the WEST pilots did what USAPA has done, you folks would be doing far worse than anything you have seen from our side.......

 

[Flybywire44]

So when can we expect the good UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA come to a decision on this injunction?

Also, when are these 161 unfortunate souls supposed to start collecting unemployment?

 

[Dr. Rumack]

Flyby,
A brief was submitted this past Thursday which starts the first clock. I believe (not sure-I am not well versed in law) the judge has two weeks to review it and determine if he/she wants to pull the lawyers into court to argue its merits. If that happens I think the judge can rule in short order to injunct or to toss it out. Long live AOL.

Also, close to 60 west pilots OCT 1, about the same on NOV1, and the rest on DEC1 are going to hit the streets. The OCT guys are really up against it with the clock now. Hopefully the court gets to the case in time to make a fair determination before their time is up.

 

[Turtle21]

Flyby,
A brief was submitted this past Thursday which starts the first clock. I believe (not sure-I am not well versed in law) the judge has two weeks to review it and determine if he/she wants to pull the lawyers into court to argue its merits. If that happens I think the judge can rule in short order to injunct or to toss it out. Long live AOL.

Also, close to 60 west pilots OCT 1, about the same on NOV1, and the rest on DEC1 are going to hit the streets. The OCT guys are really up against it with the clock now. Hopefully the court gets to the case in time to make a fair determination before their time is up.

Hopefully the judge provides his decision before any furloughs.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

None of this is going to make a hill of a difference soon. US Airways is a POS airlined bound to be out of business by the end of 2009! Then let all the eastholes go out and find jobs!

 

[LearLove]

IMO - if the courts say to abaide furloughs will still happen they would just furlough by DOH up to the most senior DOH on the east side etting the ax -

the most senior east guy getting the ax guy is 3546ish and his DOH is oct/nov 2004. thus they would equil this out west. it will save a few west guys (good thing) but there would still be furloughs - but now both sides are furloughed back to equil DOH's

just how I see the company getting around it

 

[The Victors]

None of this is going to make a hill of a difference soon. US Airways is a POS airlined bound to be out of business by the end of 2009! Then let all the eastholes go out and find jobs!

Don't know if "out by the end of 2009" is accurate, but I think it's accurate to say that these 2 groups will never, never come together without killing each other. Therefore the airline is doomed.

 

[TWA Dude]

just how I see the company getting around it

There's plenty of ways the company can get around it. The whole point is to get them to abide by the TA even when USAPA isn't. The West has no representation so the courts are our only tool.

 

[FDJ2]

Quick, tell the NMB they messed up by certifying a sham.

It's a sham union because it is not based on common goals, but on the desire of a mob of bitter pilots to steal the seniority of a smaller pilot group. Pathetic.

And yes, unionism is about working together for a common goal (that is defined by a vote). If a "union" attempts to cram down something that was determined outside of the union then it isn't "common".

USAPA is all about cramming down a sham seniority list on a smaller pilot group. Hardly the basis of true unionism.

 

[FDJ2]

If the east wanted to bolt from ALPA, then they had every right. Dragging the AWA pilots into their sty was unconscionable.

Bingo!

 

[weasel_lips]

This AWAPPA complaint is BS. This thing seeks to have ALL repeat ALL furloughs come from the east side. Now that's real fair considering most of the flying lost was on the west side.

 

[cactusboy53]

This AWAPPA complaint is BS. This thing seeks to have ALL repeat ALL furloughs come from the east side. Now that's real fair considering most of the flying lost was on the west side.

NO.

BS is
1. Failing to abide and accept a federal final and binding decision.
2. Failing to return to the negotiation table last year.
3. Demonizing ALPA for all of your woes, and voting in your little association, and failing to properly represent the interests of ALL US Airways pilots.

PS According to the NMB, there is no East side or West side. We are all one carrier. You kids can fly out here, and those of us interested can fly out there.

PSS Enjoyed a 100% mechanical not long ago, and have a couple of 100% DH's coming up. You could have enjoyed the same, had integrity mattered more than an unachievable DOH.

 

[FR8mastr]

not one elected WEST representative is an absolute joke. And if that isn't something you can't understand... Well there in lies the problem.

I will never change your opinion on USAPA, I wont even try. But I do have to ask you how the West is supposed to have an elected rep, when nobody from the west will run? Are not the West pilots supposed to vote in a West rep? PHX and LAS. I can just imagine the screams if an East pilots was appointed to the position. (and rightly so)

 

[weasel_lips]

NO.

BS is....... (yadda yadda yadda... SOS....)

You tools out west are wasting your time and money trying to get a judge to rule that all furloughes should be from the east side only.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I will never change your opinion on USAPA, I wont even try. But I do have to ask you how the West is supposed to have an elected rep, when nobody from the west will run? Are not the West pilots supposed to vote in a West rep? PHX and LAS. I can just imagine the screams if an East pilots was appointed to the position. (and rightly so)

No one has been elected to any position in USAPA. They are all appointed so far. Perhaps Bradford will convene a draft board to conscribe a west rep. Maybe he'll appoint his pet guinea pig.