Awa Merger

[Crzipilot]

So tell me why I had 2 FURLOUGHED US Air guys in my class at AWA claiming they came straight from MDA? Was MDA planned before things went south at U? Was this a strategic move planned long ago to phase out your dependence on regional airlines? I guess I'm not so much trying to argue as much as I am trying to understand this logic. To me it does not matter who is eligible for this or that in your MEC/LEC. And again at CAL/COex we initially had 1 MEC that included both CAL and COex pilots (Because we were a wholly owned "division" of Continental Airlines). That did not change the fact that the FURLOUGHED CAL pilots at COex were still FURLOUGHED. As far as being shown as "active" it depends on whose list we are talking about here. So I suppose my real question in all of this nonsense is this: Do you have a published list for MDA that is SEPERATE from U?
Andy

Well Andy, that's the interesting point. As there was supposed to be a list coming out showing that, but it seems it's been delayed. Now I understand that CAL/COex were managed by 1 MEC, BUT the difference here, isn't COex a seperate airline in the sense it has a seperate certificate? Did the COex name operate under the CAL certificate? Probably not. That's the rub here. MDA was supposed to be a SEPERATE airline, it never came to fruitation, and the FEDS were the ones starting to push for everything be rolled into one, and that action was starting at the beginning of the year. Remember ALPA isn't really sure what to do with this, as they have gone into hiding. There were shouts that your furloughed, and that's it......now they have become silient. Seems some lawyers are getting involved in the mess.....I'm not there so I don't have all the details, but that's what is floating around. IF MDA had gotten it's own certificate, and become a seperate airline, operated under the GROUP name with a seperate DO, seperate DIR. Trng, and such. It doesn't exist, those which occupy those positions are actually the mainline positions. I believe, I could be wrong, but everywhere I have looked, it doesn't list anyone which occupy such positions.
So what airline do they work for??

 

[JetMonkey]

Well Andy, that's the interesting point. As there was supposed to be a list coming out showing that, but it seems it's been delayed. Now I understand that CAL/COex were managed by 1 MEC, BUT the difference here, isn't COex a seperate airline in the sense it has a seperate certificate? Did the COex name operate under the CAL certificate? Probably not. That's the rub here. MDA was supposed to be a SEPERATE airline, it never came to fruitation, and the FEDS were the ones starting to push for everything be rolled into one, and that action was starting at the beginning of the year. Remember ALPA isn't really sure what to do with this, as they have gone into hiding. There were shouts that your furloughed, and that's it......now they have become silient. Seems some lawyers are getting involved in the mess.....I'm not there so I don't have all the details, but that's what is floating around. IF MDA had gotten it's own certificate, and become a seperate airline, operated under the GROUP name with a seperate DO, seperate DIR. Trng, and such. It doesn't exist, those which occupy those positions are actually the mainline positions. I believe, I could be wrong, but everywhere I have looked, it doesn't list anyone which occupy such positions.
So what airline do they work for??

It has to have an operating certificate before it can take on the name "Airline" does it not? If it was under mainline it would probably be named some funky low-cost affiliate like "Metro Jet" was, you don't see Song and Ted as different airlines do you? no, they're part of Delta and United. So why would Mid-Atlantic AIRLINES be included in that? They had to have filed for a seperate certificate with the DOT.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

WhiskeyDriver......How long have you been at AWA?

Irrelevant!!!

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

WD

I had just over 600 pilots junior to me at US Airways, so, no, being at the bottom of the list was never a familiar place for me.

Why does that matter again?

According to you and others every furloughed USAir pilot's expectations were ZERO, so let's not even discuss it.

As always, Happy Win...d...fa....

Oh yeah. Sorry. I forgot you don't like to be reminded about how good things are going to be for you when the U retirements kick in and turbo-boost your seniority.

How about: Happy Father's Day!

Happy Father's day to you as well if it applies!!!

I don't think we will see these windfalls you claim but I do see relative intagration happening!! Arguing amongst our selves is pointless it will have no bearing on the out come!!!

WD.

 

[TWA Dude]

Read my post more carefully. I specifically did not say thank the AWA pilots because I realize that we have no say in this aquisition. I said thank AWA (actually, I am a share holder). But the truth is if this prolongs the careers of USA pilots then they better be thankful down the road.

I disagree that USA pilots should thank AWA. When given a gift one should be thankful but this isn't a gift. It's a business decision that may happen to benefit many. If they choose to thank somebody that's their prerogative but it's sanctimonious to tell them to thank anybody.

I just want them to realize that without this deal they are toast. The only ones that say otherwise are the USA pilots.

Once again I disagree. I can't predict the future so what qualifies you to do so? Sure, USAir is in financial straights, but until the operation actually shuts down the possibility exists that they'll stay in business.

P.S. You're talking to the son of a TWA pilot...so I know how it is.

I'm sure you've heard a lot but I'm not so sure you understand what you've heard.

 

[miles otoole]

Irrelevant!!!

WD.

Irrelevant because you are new. If you had been there for 15 years, you would certainly tell us.

 

[Crzipilot]

It has to have an operating certificate before it can take on the name "Airline" does it not? If it was under mainline it would probably be named some funky low-cost affiliate like "Metro Jet" was, you don't see Song and Ted as different airlines do you? no, they're part of Delta and United. So why would Mid-Atlantic AIRLINES be included in that? They had to have filed for a seperate certificate with the DOT.

Ok..this I don't understand. As far as MDA goes, they may have started the filing process, but filing an application doesn't mean squat. They don't have a seperate certificate nor are they going to have one. The FEDS have had hurtburn over the whole thing. Oh Wait you mean the FEDS wouldn't do anything outside the lines...ok.....
Anyways don't have the time nor desire to look up DOT filings, but yes, MDA is basically the same as Song or TED, the way it is run now. Except it's a cluster F*** and ALPA has allowed it to go on...and now both sides are trying to sweep it under the rug......

On another note....the MDA folks started paying dues from day 1 of training. I on the other hand at a j4j position was listed as an apprentice by ALPA for 1 yr.......why the difference???? Because ALPA viewed the MDA pilots as being recalled to active status on the AAA certificate

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Quote from TWA Dude: "I'm sure you've heard a lot but I'm not so sure you understand what you've heard."

My father was there for 39 years and my Grandfather was there for 38 years, both as pilots. Trust me, I probably know more about and understand the events at TWA than you did. Still wanna argue about this?

That has nothing to do with the AWA aquisition of US Airways so it's pointless to drabble on about it.

So you don't think that the USA pilots should be thankful? Fine...don't be thankful to AWA...but you better be thankful. Heck, you should be thankful that you have a job. I know I am! There...case closed.

And so you all know my source for US Airway's near certain demise is US Airways pilots that I have spoken to, not USA Today. They are certainly a more credible, or at least more believable source than you (or anyone on flightinfo.com) are. Only recently have they been singing a different tune...now that integration is likely. GE Capital has some interesting things to say about this as well.

You are right in that I don't have a crystal ball and I cannot see the future. What I can tell you for sure is this: At this moment AWA is in a much better position than US Airways. You cannot argue with this. All you can say is "AWA is not in the greatest shape right now, either." No, but we are in much better shape than US Airways...hands down. Would we be in 10 years? 15 years? I don't know, I don't care. I do know that we are not going to wait that long to integrate.

Nobody is trying to hose the US Airways pilots. So I'll say it again: Relative integration of the two Active lists with the furloughee's being recalled as needed to the bottom of that list. Then, after all the furloughs have returned, we will hire off the street. I don't have a problem with fences and I think that a fence right down the Mississippi River is not a bad idea.

Now, obviously, there will be other issues such as furloughs being recalled to PHX or LAS instead of CLT or PHL, but we will work those out.

P.S. I have not spoken to one AWA pilot who wishes to bid to the East Coast. I'm sure there are a few out there but I have not spoken to any of them. I have spoken to a handful of US Airways pilots on overnights and quite a few of them were interested in bidding out to PHX. Point: It seems to me that there are more US Airways pilots who wish to cross the fence than AWA pilots. Its things like this that compel me to be vocal.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Ill be back in 4 days...peace out.

 

[PHXFLYR]

[

PHXFLYER.....uhmmmm......I feelt he pain you flew 10 years at a WO'd, As to you saying *ELL no to the CEL list, well why?? the CEL list is there, it was promised these guys could flow up, and they should still be able to after the merger. What would you have against these guys flowing up??? No where have I mentioned them being integrated or slotted or DOH, just that the program needs to be kept in place. Alot of those guys are in the mid 20's and in 10 years may still be there, and would prob. welcome the fact of being able to flow up to the mainline. Why wouldn't you offer them such a chance? Again the "I got mine" attitude prevails...[/QUOTE]

Re-read my post,friend . That IS NOT what I said. What I DID say and what you failed to understand is that if the CEL pilots at MDA DO NOT have a USAir senority number like the furloughed USAir pilots currently flying at MDA do, they should not expect to be part of the merger discussions. Only the Furloughed USAir pilots at MDA should . As for the CEL list and the flow thru agreement, this is an agreement between the WO's and premerger USAirways. I seriously doubt that you will see this part of the contract remain once the collective bargaining agreement is amended if the merger is approved. I find this quite disappointing on a personal level because I have quite a few friends there who we're my F/O's during my wholly-owned days.

PHXFLYR