Aviation Fraternity or Snobbery?

[24 carat]

I was lucky enough to visit AOPA Expo in Palm Springs last weekend. Although I had a good time (interesting seminars), there wasn't much of a collective feeling, like the fraternity of aviators or something like that. I tried on several occasions to strike up a conversation but was always met with very curt answers. I was not looking for major conversations or in depth analysis, just a friendly chat, you know, like on the local airport. And last time I checked I did not have a major zit protruding from my nose.

Are we turning into snobs, too good to talk to each other because my airplane is bigger/faster/more expensive than yours? Please tell me this is not the case.

 

[MFRskyknight]

Unfortunately, I get the very same feeling. With a few exceptions, reading the magazine gives me the impression that none of the authors and/or members featured in there would be all too genuinely interested in anything I have to say.

Which is fine, since I feel similarly about the subjects of their articles: the writing is redundant and painfully inoffensive, the humor is tepid, and they always seem slightly detached from reality.

Just my POV though.

 

[nosehair]

to visit AOPA Expo in Palm Springs

Hey! You're in Palm springs...whaddaya expect??

 

[JediNein]

The place to strike up a conversation is during the lunches and dinners, preferably one of the 'other organizations' dinners. On the convention floor, there are too many people trying to see too many exhibits in too short of a time and space.

I had a great time at the Cirrus Owners & Pilots Assocation Dinner. We took over the Kaiser Grill and talked from 6:00 to 10:00 PM. The president of the company was there, along with at least one of the founders, a whole host of salespeople, and tables full of owners. Some of us would rotate tables as the conversations shifted and people wore out, finally ending up with just two tables. We were still yaking on our way out the door.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[Shiny Side Up]

It wasn't just you, 24K.
I felt like everyone was just too cool to give me the time of day at expo.
The sales guys on the floor certainly seemed to have an attitude.

 

[siucavflight]

AOPA has become a joke, Phil Boyer does a lot of lip moving, but very little of it has any substance, I am done with them.

 

[Shiny Side Up]

AOPA has become a joke, Phil Boyer does a lot of lip moving, but very little of it has any substance, I am done with them.

I don't think thats the case at all.
If it weren't for AOPA I think we would be seeing user fees out the a$$ and a lot more airport closures.

My beef is with the ******************************-bag sales guys sizing you up to see if your net worth warrants even a grunt and a head nod.

 

[Fugawe]

Why worry about AOPA, or any other 'club' if you want flying camraderie?

You know this -- but, just go to an airport, or find guys hanging around airplanes if you want to talk flying.

Expos and such have a purpose, but what do you expect from a bunch of self-important wannabes hanging around a booth in their polo shirts? They're trolling for memberships and for someone to stroke their egos.

Fugawe

 

[agpilot34]

AOPA has become a joke, Phil Boyer does a lot of lip moving, but very little of it has any substance, I am done with them.

Well, I dont see ANY other organizations stepping up and supporting GA. What have YOU done for your profession lately??

 

[mee]

i get the same feel, some pilots think they are God's gift to humanity. Its just a job. chelax

 

[G2T]

I think the Expos are the wrong place to go to find friendly conversation, there is too much business going on. Go to Sun'nFun or Oshkosh and camp next to your airplane. You will be assured friendly conversation. We flew into Oshkosh and camped there a couple of years ago and met more people than I knew what to do with.

 

[A Squared]

Well, I dont see ANY other organizations stepping up and supporting GA.

EAA


And they have a much better magazine.

 

[Way2Broke]

I think AOPA has its place in the world. I keep my pre-paid legal with them and the 1(800) number is great for getting questions answered (I just wish they kept longer hours). I went to the expo one year, and I can relate to your concerns. But look at it this way, those vendors paid big bucks to set up at the Expo and they want to get a return out of their investment. My biggest complaint about AOPA is all the junk mail I get from them. It seems to me if they did not send a renewal notice ever other day they could save alot of money and do things like keep small airports open.

 

[wrxpilot]

I don't think thats the case at all.
If it weren't for AOPA I think we would be seeing user fees out the a$$ and a lot more airport closures.

My beef is with the ******************************-bag sales guys sizing you up to see if your net worth warrants even a grunt and a head nod.

I've definitely had different experiences at Sun-n-Fun (I know, EAA not AOPA). But the same sales guys I'm sure. The first year I went (2004) was when I was just a poor, mid-20s student pilot. I have to say the a/c salesman were very nice to me. Talked with me, allowed me to tour the a/c as long as I wanted (and they weren't hovering over me). I'm not talking about the kitplanes either... Citations, Gulfstreams, etc. The only company that kinda blew us off was Diamond. The pilots at Sun-n-Fun all seemed friendly to me too, like the aviation fraternity feeling you're talking about.

Have you ever been to a boat show in Ft. Lauderdale or Palm Beach? That's where the snobs are (salesman and show visitors). I was treated VERY rudely by pretty much everybody at the Palm Beach boat show.

 

[wrxpilot]

Expos and such have a purpose, but what do you expect from a bunch of self-important wannabes hanging around a booth in their polo shirts? They're trolling for memberships and for someone to stroke their egos.

Fugawe

I have NEVER experienced that kind of attitude from anybody at AOPA, whether it be at a show, safety seminar, talking to them on the phone, or exchanging emails with Phil Boyer himself. I wish I could say the same about some of the other associations I'm part of. AOPA is far above any of them in value, service, and effectiveness IMO.

 

[siucavflight]

Well, I dont see ANY other organizations stepping up and supporting GA. What have YOU done for your profession lately??

I joined the EAA, and also go to the local airport commission meetings at the local GA airport by my house (PWK).

 

[agpilot34]

I'm an EAA member as well, but I still dont think they do as much overall for GA as the AOPA does. Now if you're a kitbuilder, there's no better bunch to be associated with.

 

[TrafficInSight]

Unfortunately, I get the very same feeling. With a few exceptions, reading the magazine gives me the impression that none of the authors and/or members featured in there would be all too genuinely interested in anything I have to say.

Which is fine, since I feel similarly about the subjects of their articles: the writing is redundant and painfully inoffensive, the humor is tepid, and they always seem slightly detached from reality.

Just my POV though.

I miss Bax

 

[MFRskyknight]

To add to what I said earlier, I would much rather see a world with AOPA than without them, and I will continue to renew my membership for as long as I have anything to do with airplanes. However, I think they exist primarily to serve a political function, rather than a fraternal one, and I have no problem with that. Representation, information, and legal protection are their strong suits; humor,
brotherhood, and the way the world really works are not (Project Pilot, while harmless and well-intentioned, is a rather naive idea). It's this side of AOPA that turns me off. Like somebody else said, the easiest (and best) way to satisy a need for association is simply to hang around the airport and talk to the people there.

 

[CalifDan]

I was there for all three days including the day prior for the parade of planes. I did not have any of the negative experiences described above. I made a point of sitting at occupied tables during morning and afternoon coffee or food breaks and met new people from various parts of the country, an fbo owner who spent 20 minutes telling me all about how he came to be one, and a Columbia sales guy. Some flew in, some did not. No attitude from any of them.

I saw Phil Boyer walking through the show and exchanged a short "good show" comment. He was obviously in a hurry, but did take time to say thanks. The Cessna guys let me occupy the left seat of the Mustang and I obviously was not a potential buyer. That said, I would think these sales people would have gotten far enough to understand that people with money don't always look like they have money.

I agree that AOPA is as much political as anything and the experience will be different than Oshkosh, a local EAA event or even your local pilots group. The thing is, we need all of the above. If you had attended the last general session you would have a better understanding of the important and unique niche AOPA fills for GA.

 

[24 carat]

To be fair, my gripe was not with AOPA or the people that work for them. It was more the regular folks, the pilots and owners, that I was hoping to have some cameradie with.

I take the point about people being busy and interested in other stuff, but in the five or ten minutes whilst we are all waiting for a to seminar start, is it such a drag to have a friendly chat with the guy sitting next to you? Even if he doesn't own a Bonanza (say)?

Fianlly, I do take the point about it being Palm Springs

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Why worry about AOPA, or any other 'club' if you want flying camraderie?

You know this -- but, just go to an airport, or find guys hanging around airplanes if you want to talk flying.

Expos and such have a purpose, but what do you expect from a bunch of self-important wannabes hanging around a booth in their polo shirts? They're trolling for memberships and for someone to stroke their egos.

Fugawe

Roger that Fugawe. If it weren't for the Legal Services Plan (which will probably turn out to be a complete waste of money if I ever have to actually use it) I would have quit a loooong time ago. (just like I did EAA, the Antique Airplane Association the CAF and all the other snobby self important groups out there)

If you want some good solid flying tips and the best humor around pick up a copy of IFR. I still come across good tips and learn something new despite thinking that I know it all!

Cheers!

 

[CalifDan]

Roger that Fugawe. If it weren't for the Legal Services Plan (which will probably turn out to be a complete waste of money if I ever have to actually use it) I would have quit a loooong time ago. (just like I did EAA, the Antique Airplane Association the CAF and all the other snobby self important groups out there)

I'm wondering why anyone would listen to the opinions from someone with no small GA aircraft in their bio regarding AOPA at a time when AOPA, EAA, NBAA and GAMA are the only ones willing to take on the current effort by the airlines to transfer additional cost of the system to us and further limit our access. Further, AOPA is the only politically active national level group who is consistently defending effots to close smaller airports.

Talk about a snobby attitude!

 

[CalifDan]

24Carat, I'm not sure what happened for you at AOPA in Palm Springs. My experience was very different. Everyone I talked with and that include prior to seminars, lunch, breakfast coffee, etc. was pleasant and open. If you were waiting for someone to say hello to you, maybe next time you should take the lead.

I met no one at the convention from Palm Springs, but I did talk with people from Texas, Southern California (LA Basin), Indiana, Minnesota, Washington State, Arizona, Colorado and that's just the ones I asked. Hardly fair to blame it on a Palm Springs attitude.

If you plan on attending another event I will be at, I would be happy to share luunch and a few stories with you.

CalifDan

 

[wrxpilot]

Talk about a snobby attitude!

I was arguing with some of these guys last year about the same thing, and some of them did claim to be beyond piston single flying at this point in their lives. Very snobby indeed.

BTW, this is why I will always support AOPA:
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2006/061115cash.html

They are making a tremendous difference as a PAC. And to those who think they are not useful in a practical sense, I guess you know very little about the ASF programs (multimedia and travelling seminars). They've been a great benefit to people like myself that are low on experience but eager to learn.