Avgas shortage, so much for gliders being immune

[Steve]

They are very popular in Europe, and I think that's because AVGAS is so expensive over there. I've never seen one here in North America either, but I'm a big fan of them. I think a good winch could get you up to 2000', although I'd have to do a little more research. Maybe someone could invent a super winch that gets up to like 4000'. That would be sweet! But by then I bet the cable would be so heavy that it would be impractical. I think the thing is they need to find a lighter material for the cable to allow higher winch launches. Right now I think that the winch has to be right by some decent "house" lift in order to be really usable. Pretty much all my soaring experience is in the powered launch category.

Anyway, it's a thought for the future. I don't really ever see myself flying piston airplanes as a hobby, but soaring, on the other hand, is something that I'd like to see prosper. I guess I just feel that we need to break our addiction to the tow plane in order to do it.

-Goose

I've seen a few winches for sale in www.wingsandwheels.com over the years. Pretty pricey though. A few were on the back of old tow trucks with a 350 chevy or 454 on back with some kind of gearing and a drum with cable. Looked pretty home made to me.

How about ground launching by towing with a car? Ive heard of that being used in Europe also but never seen it here. Anyone done it before?

 

[MJG]

Roger that about the "house lift". I wish we had that luxury. Unfortunately we don't. Heck even just a small ridge nearby would help alot. But most of Ohio, with the exception of the southeastern part, is completely flat. Oh well.

Maybe a diesel powered engine for the Pawnee, hmmm.......there's an idea.

 

[SPilot]

2000' is on the high end of typical winch launch release altitudes. Where I saw them in use, 400-600 meter was typical, much depending on pilot technique. Oh btw, thats 1300-1900 feet....

Winch is perfect for the beginning pilot learning to land before the first solo. And at a quarter of the price too.... $8 bucks for a winch tow would be a typical price in Europe.

Noise impact on the community can be reduced to well, silence..., but plenty of emergency landing space must be available...mm.

Edit: with a quick ground crew and very long landing strip, a glider can do "touch and go's" almost as quick as a powered aircraft.

 

[LivestockTony]

Out of curiosity, how many tows does a pawnee make before refueling (if fuel is on site)?

-TF

 

[MJG]

I think ours will get around 15 or so in before stopping to fill up. I've never seen them fill up more than twice in a day. All depends on the height that people want. Luckily the Pawnee will haul everything we've got up in a jiffy so the tows to 3000' never take more than 10 minutes.

As a side note to this story we did manage to find a gentleman with a tank on the back of his truck, complete with fuel filter and pump. He agreed to haul some fuel for us for the next couple of weeks. Should be enough to get us through these next couple months. This way our tow plane won't have to leave and go get gas at one of the nearby FBOs. However I guess this was bound to happen sooner or later this year as our club did go ahead and raise tow fees a couple bucks for all tows. Now paying $25 for a 3000 footer. Still cheaper by a long ways than renting a 172 these days. In addition we've all been "encouraged" to get off the tow early if we're in good lift.

Now normally when I try that it ends in a very brief sled ride back to the ground. However yesterday I managed a bargain when I gambled and got off at 1600' AGL on my second flight of the day in a SGS 1-26. So that tow only cost me $15 bucks. I turned that $15 dollar tow into a 90 minute soaring flight reaching 4900' AGL at the highest point. 4900' AGL being exactly 500' below the bases of course.

I only came down because I just couldn't "hold it" any longer and I hadn't drank all my water yet, and there's no way to dump anything out of a 1-26 that I know of.

 

[mzaharis]

How about ground launching by towing with a car? Ive heard of that being used in Europe also but never seen it here. Anyone done it before?

I remember seeing Karl Striedieck being launched by Jeep tow before that world record setting out-and-back Appalachian ridge run he did back in the late '70s/early 80's. There was a picture of the launch in National Geographic, if you can find the issue.


EDIT: Here's a scan:

http://home.comcast.net/~johan.larson/soaring/thousand-mile-glide.html

 

[MJG]

Thanks for the link, love reading about these attempts.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

FWIW, you can buy 100LL AVGAS from the Exxon station out in Weston in South Florida. It comes right out of a normal pump like the regular unleaded.

When I asked about it, it turns out that there are more than enough airboats (which use AC engines) to justify it.

The numbers on the Pawnee are just about right. About 15 tows per tank, and the thing pulls a ton. Ours had been refurbed, and never used as a spray plane since. Without all the spray gear, there was enough room for a retractable tow rope, which is the bees knees.

I think the local club, which ran a Supercub, was charging $12 for a 2000' tow, but you had to be a member. I forget what we charged, but the time between a 2000' and a 3000' tow in the Pawnee was not significant.

I loved the Pawnee. Lazy days flying tow, napping under the wing, and catching 1 hour Blanik flights at the peak of the thermals are some of my favorite GA memories.

Nu

 

[Goose Egg]

When I asked about it, it turns out that there are more than enough airboats (which use AC engines) to justify it.

I thought that engine looked familiar!!

-Goose

 

[tuna pimp]

They are very popular in Europe, and I think that's because AVGAS is so expensive over there. I've never seen one here in North America either, but I'm a big fan of them. I think a good winch could get you up to 2000', although I'd have to do a little more research. Maybe someone could invent a super winch that gets up to like 4000'. That would be sweet! But by then I bet the cable would be so heavy that it would be impractical. I think the thing is they need to find a lighter material for the cable to allow higher winch launches. Right now I think that the winch has to be right by some decent "house" lift in order to be really usable. Pretty much all my soaring experience is in the powered launch category.

Anyway, it's a thought for the future. I don't really ever see myself flying piston airplanes as a hobby, but soaring, on the other hand, is something that I'd like to see prosper. I guess I just feel that we need to break our addiction to the tow plane in order to do it.

-Goose

There was something in 'Soaring' magazine about a year or year and a half ago about some of the new winches. As I recall launches over 3000' is possible i think because they use some sort of different type of cable that doesn't break as much and the winches can sense when to speed up and slow down automatically (but don't quote me on that).

The purchase price of these new super winches is really high though, especially for your typical US based club operating 1-26's on a shoe string budget. Guess those Euro clubs that can afford new Schleichers are in better shape to buy these high end winches.