Average time for first solo?

[rvsm410]

I had forgotten my times and dusted off the old log book, circa 1978 40 hours required for PPL then..

Solo was 8.7 hrs N45430 c150

PPL Checkride was 56.6

Part 61 school, kCOI Merritt Island air Service

 

[Lead Sled]

We just moved into a new place and I found my old logbooks. I also found my father's logbook - he learned to fly back in 1950 something in a 2-control Ercoupe. I was just reading an article somewhere about how the average student was able to solo an Ercoupe in 5 hours or so. My dad had a little over 4.3 hours when he soloed. He told me that his instructor was having a contest with another instructor to see who could solo a student the quickest! (Scary eh?) My dad's instructor lost. I can remember reading an ad in some old flying magazine where, as a marketing stunt, some woman soloed an Ercoupe with 1 hour of dual. Things were different back then.

In my case, I was able to fly quite a bit with my dad - he owned a Tri-Pacer with a couple of other guys. I started flying with a CFI in time to be able to solo on my 16th birthday. I joined a flying club and flew an Aeronca 7AC Champ. I had 6.3 hours when I soloed. By the time I turned 17 I had about 60 hours - not because I needed that many to get ready for the checkride, but because I spend as much time as I could flying the club's Champs while I was waiting for my 17th birthday.

Avbug may remember this - back in the late 60's there was a flying club at Bountiful Skypark that had a couple of Champs and a Cessna 170. The Champs cost $4.00 per hour wet, the C170 was $7.00. I didn't fly the 170 a lot because it cost too much. FWIW, the FBO had a new Mooney M20C that went for $16.00 an hour. I had to rent a new 1967 C-150 for my checkride. It cost me $6/hour (wet) in 10 hour blocks. I think my PPL ended up costing me about $400. Everything's relative though - I only made $1.50 an hour bagging groceries.

'Sled

 

[JAFI]

I agree with the comments that comparing different students solo times and time to pass a PPL are apples and oranges. First, everyone learns at different rates. Weather, aircraft availability, Instructor ability, student ability, money availability, how busy were the airport(s), and the list can go on and on determine the number of hours needed to complete the task. What matters (IMHO) is that the student is able to operate the aircraft safely.

We are not a factory that punches out so many widgets per hour but (hopefully) a learning institution that individually produces safe and competent airman.

It is not how many hours it took to pass but how well is the student turned airman is able to operate an aircraft.

JAFI

P.S. I remember getting paid in cash in an envelope not much larger than todays credit card when a 10 cent per hour raise was big stuff, regular gas was around 40 cents a gallon, a new C-150 was $14 per hour wet.......

 

[Illini Pilot]

well, i was just filling out one of my students cumulative flt records at our 141 school...he had 20 to solo and 63 total including a stage check and end of course ride to get his private. i got my at DPA and took about 35 hrs but looking back at it i think i got jacked for a few extra hours. honestly, i've seen some **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good students that just couldn't get landings, and then all of a sudden it clicks...its a crapshoot really and just depends on how the student understands the whole process and how quickly he is able to apply it routinely

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

It would be easy to solo a motivated student in less than 10 hours. Particularly at a non-controlled field. On the other hand, if compliance with the FAR's means anything and the CFI believes that the student should have a good understanding of the maneuvers he/she is performing, then anything less than 12-15 hours seems almost impossible. My stundents probably averaged around 20-22, the younger ones were closer to 15-17.

FWIW, a WWII pilot told me that you were a washout if you didn't solo in under 8 hours.

Mr. I.

 

[Ralgha]

FWIW, a WWII pilot told me that you were a washout if you didn't solo in under 8 hours.

Back during WWII there weren't nearly as many requirements prior to solo as now. 8 hours or less was very doable back then.

 

[UnAnswerd]

I'll tell you one thing. By the next lesson I'll have over 12 hours, and I feel like I could not land it by myself. I need a lot of work in the pattern, and I see solo flight as something very far away...........

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Back during WWII there weren't nearly as many requirements prior to solo as now. 8 hours or less was very doable back then.

Of course. I'm sure most CFI's could get someone solo'd in about 5 hours if landings were about 4 hours of the training.

Mr. I.

 

[Fly_Chick]

Every student and instructor is different. I find that the students who do their homework, and come prepared to a lesson are in much better shape to solo sooner.

Part 61.87 lists fifteen items that need to be covered before a student can solo. Granted some of those items include things like proper preflight, taxiing, yet some of the other things including emergency procedures and equipment malfunctions cannot be demonstrated, grasped and covered in one lesson (engine failures and comm failures for example).

The instructor is also responsible for making sure that person "Demonstrated satisfactory proficiency and safety, as judged by an authorized instructor, on the maneuvers and procedures required by this section".

15-20 hours seems normal for solo-ing. Keep in mind there are so many factors (besides student/instructor ability) that come into play that it is hard to establish a concrete number (towered vs. non-towered, weather, congestion, maintenance).

As far as not charging for ground instruction, I totally disagree.

Granted, there is some give and take, such as when a student pays for lunch or dinner during our cross-country stop and we discuss the flight during the meal, I will not charge. Yet if I have spent an hour on a pre-flight of the aircraft three times in a row and the student just does not put any effort into it, I will charge. If I explain, from the beginning, how to add oil, or add air to the tires, I will charge.

I always charge for ground, much of it is at my discretion and in the long run the student ALWAYS makes out. How many times have we, as CFIs, offered up our advise, experience, weather interpretations, airspace questions, when not "on the clock" with a specific student?

I fly for the pure love of flying, and will go out of my way to assist a student who is committed, dedicated, interested in learning and respects my interest in his/her success.

Enough of my rant...

 

[Cat Driver]

At the risk of taking some flack here can anyone explain to me why taking into consideration the difference in training hours to get a license today and twenty five or thirty years ago I find the general flying skills level are not as good today as back then?

 

[minitour]

I'd have to agree with the comments about comparing solo/checkride times not being the same thing.

In the end, it doesn't say "Private Pilot Airplane Single-Engine Land at __ Hours"...just the first part.

It's all the same ticket.

IMHO

-mini

 

[User546]

While we're on the subject of solo's here's another question for all you CFI's out there.

Does the customary three touch n goes that the student does on his first solo - are those required to be a controlled airfield? I was never told this, but after reading a Private Pilot Checkride Checklist that my flight school had given me, it specifically said on there that it had to be at a controlled tower.

Is this true or not??

 

[minitour]

While we're on the subject of solo's here's another question for all you CFI's out there.

Does the customary three touch n goes that the student does on his first solo - are those required to be a controlled airfield? I was never told this, but after reading a Private Pilot Checkride Checklist that my flight school had given me, it specifically said on there that it had to be at a controlled tower.

Is this true or not??

interesting...I'm at a controlled field, so I guess it is anyway for me/my students, but I'm not real sure...get back to ya though.

-mini

 

[WMUSIGPI]

While we're on the subject of solo's here's another question for all you CFI's out there.

Does the customary three touch n goes that the student does on his first solo - are those required to be a controlled airfield? I was never told this, but after reading a Private Pilot Checkride Checklist that my flight school had given me, it specifically said on there that it had to be at a controlled tower.

Is this true or not??

No, at least not in the FAR's. If your school requires it and operates under part 141, maybe. At the school I worked at (based at a very busy class D airport) it was instructor's discression. We could solo the students there or at a nearby less busy class D or at one of the nearby uncontrolled fields. The only catch was if we didn't solo at the home airport we had to come up with our own airport specific written test questions about the airport we soloed (we had school developed standard tests but only for the home airport)

 

[I.P. Freley]

Where I taught, our syllabus was pretty much jacked from ERAU so we had a very specific lesson plan for each flight and a "stage check" pre-solo with one of the designated "stage check pilots". So, the student needed to be able to demonstrate intimate knowledge of the (obscenely busy class D) airport area's published departure/arrival scenarios, the whole stall/slow flight regime plus the whole engine failure scenario, minimum three landings, and an oral pre/debrief. There was no kidding around at that place, I assure you.

Before being allowed to leave the pattern to head over to another airport, they needed to demonstrate their ability to leave the Class D, transition the local Class C, and get over to the closest uncontrolled field for pattern work there.

I dare say that our training might have overprepared people, but considering how easy it was to get violated for airspace busts in the area and how good the finished product was, generally speaking, it was worth it to go the extra mile. When students from other schools on the field came to us for rental checkouts, it was not a given that they'd be checked out on their first try... Our school simply produced better pilots.

 

[Folding_Expert]

Wow, I didn't imagine I would get this amount of feedback on this topic. Thanks for everyone's contribution.

I forgot to mention that I train (and work) at a very busy Class D airport (APF), and that I only get a chance to fly once a week (believe me, if I could do it everyday, I would).

Anyway, your comments have boosted my confidence enough to make me feel like I am progressing at a normal rate, which is what I really wanted to hear. Thanks again.

 

[Kream926]

Of course. I'm sure most CFI's could get someone solo'd in about 5 hours if landings were about 4 hours of the training.

Mr. I.

i remember my handbook saying something about learning all the fundemental flight manouvers before initial solo

 

[User546]

i remember my handbook saying something about learning all the fundemental flight manouvers before initial solo

Yeap, bust out your FAR and turn to 61.87(d). You'll find a nice extensive lists of 15 items that need to be satisfied prior to a student soloing. You honestly tell me a CFI can abide by these legitimately and still solo a student in 5 hours!

And to Folding_Expert, glad we could help you out and make you feel better about where your at. Just always remember, don't sweat it, it all comes in due time. This rating will drive you crazy if you try to do it "by numbers". The only numbers that are important are those in 61.109 (Private Pilot - Aeronautical Experience).

 

[minitour]

The only numbers that are important are those in 61.109 (Private Pilot - Aeronautical Experience).

what he said

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

No kidding there are 15 required maneuvers and procedures and a certain level should be attained. What I was saying was that a motivated student, without adhering to the regs would be easy to solo in 5 hours. Just stay in the pattern for most of the training. Did you read this whole thread and my earlier comments? Probably not.

As far as not charging for ground instruction, I totally disagree.

Granted, there is some give and take, such as when a student pays for lunch or dinner during our cross-country stop and we discuss the flight during the meal, I will not charge. Yet if I have spent an hour on a pre-flight of the aircraft three times in a row and the student just does not put any effort into it, I will charge. If I explain, from the beginning, how to add oil, or add air to the tires, I will charge.

I always charge for ground, much of it is at my discretion and in the long run the student ALWAYS makes out. How many times have we, as CFIs, offered up our advise, experience, weather interpretations, airspace questions, when not "on the clock" with a specific student?

I fly for the pure love of flying, and will go out of my way to assist a student who is committed, dedicated, interested in learning and respects my interest in his/her success.

Enough of my rant...

On the other hand, you could be a real stand up girl and not charge for ground. Maybe your landlord will be a real stand up guy/girl and not charge for rent this month? I always charged for ground. Think about it, rainy day, you drive to the airport, spend five hours doing ground and don't get paid? I don't think so.

Good post Fly_Chick.

Mr. I.