Average time for first solo?

[sqwkvfr]

That instructor needs to get smacked with the "why the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** am I working for free" stick.

Someone should tell him that Walmart would let him work for free in a heartbeat and it would be a lot less stressful.

He was the victim of an unscrupulous instructor during HIS training that charged him ground for every little conversation that they had.

In fact, he told me a story about how he was standing at a urinal and his instructor came in the BR, walked up the the next urinal and started to do his business...then he started to talk about flying.

My instructor cut him off and told him to stop talking because he couldn't "afford" to have the conversation.

That's the story I'd always hear when I asked him why he didn't charge me for ground.

Anyhow, I was usually able to change the numbers at the dispatch desk to pay him for his time...but I had to do it outside of his presence, otherwise he would object.

I'll bet that REALLY pisses you off, huh?

 

[Ralgha]

Pisses me off that you changed the numbers or that he's an idiot? I applaud you for being honest and fair. Him on the other hand...

He somehow thinks that providing instruction for free will change the fact that he was overcharged in the past? It's in the past, get over it. He needs to realize that starving to death while instructing for free isn't going to change a thing about his previous instructor and he is only hurting himself and all other quality CFIs that try to earn a decent living.

Not to say you can never give free instruction, I gave my CFI friends free instruction, and in return they gave me free instruction when I needed it. So in the end, I didn't lose anything since had we charged each other we would have just traded the same money back and forth.

 

[qmaster3]

I've flown with 2 CFI's, both retired airline types. There were times when I was not charged for ground, or all my ground. Guess that's the way aviation used to be. Then again I always did bring the beer.

 

[Cat Driver]

For whatever it is worth I soloed in 14 hours, due partly to flying spaced to far apart because of lack of money. I received my PPL at 30 hours the time required back then.

But maybe with tailwheel airplanes and we just had it to easy in those days.

Anyhow I guess it worked out O.K. because after fifty two years I'm still at it and have yet to have an accident in an aircraft.

For comparison regarding cost, solo was $8.00 per hour and dual was $10.00 per hour. And I made 35 dollars a week driving truck.

 

[P3 Tweek]

Qm3 > Ax2

qmaster3,

You did it the same way I did. I think my training was about as good as possible. I am so thankful for it. My former CFI was a P-3 PPC and now is a captain for LUV. At the time, we were both starving university students. He was a midshipman NROTC NESEP. He needed the flight time and I needed the COML ASEL/AMEL/I. Man those were fun times now so long ago.

P-3C IFT Tweek

PS. Of course, the beer and dinners/lunches were on me. Cheese enchiladas, with Coors and hot salsa shooters. I remember the old C-206 at NUQ with the 12 volt system and 2 blade prop for $26/hr wet! Those were great days bro! Soloed in 1973 with 9.3 hours in a PA28-140B. PP ASEL with 42.1 hours under the `old' FAR 61.

 

[rvsm410]

I had forgotten my times and dusted off the old log book, circa 1978 40 hours required for PPL then..

Solo was 8.7 hrs N45430 c150

PPL Checkride was 56.6

Part 61 school, kCOI Merritt Island air Service

 

[Lead Sled]

We just moved into a new place and I found my old logbooks. I also found my father's logbook - he learned to fly back in 1950 something in a 2-control Ercoupe. I was just reading an article somewhere about how the average student was able to solo an Ercoupe in 5 hours or so. My dad had a little over 4.3 hours when he soloed. He told me that his instructor was having a contest with another instructor to see who could solo a student the quickest! (Scary eh?) My dad's instructor lost. I can remember reading an ad in some old flying magazine where, as a marketing stunt, some woman soloed an Ercoupe with 1 hour of dual. Things were different back then.

In my case, I was able to fly quite a bit with my dad - he owned a Tri-Pacer with a couple of other guys. I started flying with a CFI in time to be able to solo on my 16th birthday. I joined a flying club and flew an Aeronca 7AC Champ. I had 6.3 hours when I soloed. By the time I turned 17 I had about 60 hours - not because I needed that many to get ready for the checkride, but because I spend as much time as I could flying the club's Champs while I was waiting for my 17th birthday.

Avbug may remember this - back in the late 60's there was a flying club at Bountiful Skypark that had a couple of Champs and a Cessna 170. The Champs cost $4.00 per hour wet, the C170 was $7.00. I didn't fly the 170 a lot because it cost too much. FWIW, the FBO had a new Mooney M20C that went for $16.00 an hour. I had to rent a new 1967 C-150 for my checkride. It cost me $6/hour (wet) in 10 hour blocks. I think my PPL ended up costing me about $400. Everything's relative though - I only made $1.50 an hour bagging groceries.

'Sled

 

[JAFI]

I agree with the comments that comparing different students solo times and time to pass a PPL are apples and oranges. First, everyone learns at different rates. Weather, aircraft availability, Instructor ability, student ability, money availability, how busy were the airport(s), and the list can go on and on determine the number of hours needed to complete the task. What matters (IMHO) is that the student is able to operate the aircraft safely.

We are not a factory that punches out so many widgets per hour but (hopefully) a learning institution that individually produces safe and competent airman.

It is not how many hours it took to pass but how well is the student turned airman is able to operate an aircraft.

JAFI

P.S. I remember getting paid in cash in an envelope not much larger than todays credit card when a 10 cent per hour raise was big stuff, regular gas was around 40 cents a gallon, a new C-150 was $14 per hour wet.......

 

[Illini Pilot]

well, i was just filling out one of my students cumulative flt records at our 141 school...he had 20 to solo and 63 total including a stage check and end of course ride to get his private. i got my at DPA and took about 35 hrs but looking back at it i think i got jacked for a few extra hours. honestly, i've seen some **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good students that just couldn't get landings, and then all of a sudden it clicks...its a crapshoot really and just depends on how the student understands the whole process and how quickly he is able to apply it routinely

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

It would be easy to solo a motivated student in less than 10 hours. Particularly at a non-controlled field. On the other hand, if compliance with the FAR's means anything and the CFI believes that the student should have a good understanding of the maneuvers he/she is performing, then anything less than 12-15 hours seems almost impossible. My stundents probably averaged around 20-22, the younger ones were closer to 15-17.

FWIW, a WWII pilot told me that you were a washout if you didn't solo in under 8 hours.

Mr. I.

 

[Ralgha]

FWIW, a WWII pilot told me that you were a washout if you didn't solo in under 8 hours.

Back during WWII there weren't nearly as many requirements prior to solo as now. 8 hours or less was very doable back then.

 

[UnAnswerd]

I'll tell you one thing. By the next lesson I'll have over 12 hours, and I feel like I could not land it by myself. I need a lot of work in the pattern, and I see solo flight as something very far away...........

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Back during WWII there weren't nearly as many requirements prior to solo as now. 8 hours or less was very doable back then.

Of course. I'm sure most CFI's could get someone solo'd in about 5 hours if landings were about 4 hours of the training.

Mr. I.

 

[Fly_Chick]

Every student and instructor is different. I find that the students who do their homework, and come prepared to a lesson are in much better shape to solo sooner.

Part 61.87 lists fifteen items that need to be covered before a student can solo. Granted some of those items include things like proper preflight, taxiing, yet some of the other things including emergency procedures and equipment malfunctions cannot be demonstrated, grasped and covered in one lesson (engine failures and comm failures for example).

The instructor is also responsible for making sure that person "Demonstrated satisfactory proficiency and safety, as judged by an authorized instructor, on the maneuvers and procedures required by this section".

15-20 hours seems normal for solo-ing. Keep in mind there are so many factors (besides student/instructor ability) that come into play that it is hard to establish a concrete number (towered vs. non-towered, weather, congestion, maintenance).

As far as not charging for ground instruction, I totally disagree.

Granted, there is some give and take, such as when a student pays for lunch or dinner during our cross-country stop and we discuss the flight during the meal, I will not charge. Yet if I have spent an hour on a pre-flight of the aircraft three times in a row and the student just does not put any effort into it, I will charge. If I explain, from the beginning, how to add oil, or add air to the tires, I will charge.

I always charge for ground, much of it is at my discretion and in the long run the student ALWAYS makes out. How many times have we, as CFIs, offered up our advise, experience, weather interpretations, airspace questions, when not "on the clock" with a specific student?

I fly for the pure love of flying, and will go out of my way to assist a student who is committed, dedicated, interested in learning and respects my interest in his/her success.

Enough of my rant...

 

[Cat Driver]

At the risk of taking some flack here can anyone explain to me why taking into consideration the difference in training hours to get a license today and twenty five or thirty years ago I find the general flying skills level are not as good today as back then?