average day at Netjets

[Hogprint]

AAANNNNDDDD.....around and around we go....

Where this thread will stop, nobody knows!

 

[Ex-teamster]

I gave up NJA last August with a senority number around 800. Couldn't stand the long hours and low pay. Even though you hear a lot of complaining, the pilots were a good group to work with. I'm glad I did it. Good luck.

 

[Fracster]

G4dude must be related to one or all of the former 5 MEC members.

The fact that we have an actual, working and productive union is the only fact that is keeping us safe.

Without the union NJA would threaten discipline or termination for not going over 14, flying in bad weather or flying when sick. These scenarios all happened under the "old union" which wasnt actualy a union anyhow.

Without the union we would be breaking FAR's and company policy left and right.

The reason we have the new union is because the pilot group needed protection from NJA.

I gave up NJA last August with a senority number around 800.

You would have been crazy not to. NJA will never be a career job. We are equivalent to a regional with slightly less pay.
The only down side to people leaving is that its exactly what NJA wants. The more senior people leave the less they have to pay.

 

[suen1843]

G4dude must be related to one or all of the former 5 MEC members.

The fact that we have an actual, working and productive union is the only fact that is keeping us safe.

Without the union NJA would threaten discipline or termination for not going over 14, flying in bad weather or flying when sick. These scenarios all happened under the "old union" which wasnt actualy a union anyhow.

Without the union we would be breaking FAR's and company policy left and right.

The reason we have the new union is because the pilot group needed protection from NJA.

So is that the way it is done at NJI and EJM.....sick pilots flying in bad weather in their 15th duty hour???

 

[Fracster]

I can't attest for any of the other operations. My first hand knowledge comes from dealing with ACP's and CP's and speaking with management.

Ask any pilot at NJA who's tenure is longer than 3 or 4 years. They ruitinely flew tired, over 14, etc... the reasons for why they did so differ but many, if not most, did so from fear of disciplinary action.

Our former CP actually cursed out a pilot because he would not fly over 14 hours. Excellent behavior for a CP of a company like NJA. Luckily he was terminated later on for consistent behavior.

Now let me add that not all the CP's and ACP's are of this caliber. We do, in fact, have some great support but this former employee is the perfect example of behavior NJA is begrudginly relinquishing.

 

[Some Dude]

Let's not forget managements actions that very nearly CLOSED THE DOORS AT NJA. Did we all forget that the FAA nearly SHUT DOWN THE OPERATIONS AT NJA. It was discovered that management falsified FAA 135 TRAINING DOCUMENTS. The actions by our morally absent management nearly costs all the employees their jobs not to mention what it would have done to the owners.

 

[FlyFlyFly]

I will second what G4Dude says. If you want a miserable work experience, go work in a union shop. I will promise a contentious us or them attitude all the live long day. You will be a part of a dysfunctional team where all the problems are someone elses fault.

The companies that have unions generally have them for a good reason, which should give a person of average intelligence enough pause to reflect on what makes the place so bad that people have to band together to force others into making decisions that benefit them.

If you want managers with an us and them type siege mentality, then by all means go to work there. From what I hear if you can fog a mirror they hire due to the people abandoning the place. Then you can have the honor of taking your place in the great dysfunctional machine, and bore anyone in an FBO dumb enough to listen how terrible a place to work your union shop is.

 

[Hogprint]

Flyx3 posted:

If you want a miserable work experience, go work in a union shop. I will promise a contentious us or them attitude all the live long day. You will be a part of a dysfunctional team where all the problems are someone elses fault.

When I was first hired at NJA, it wasn't like this at all. It felt like a family operation. People worked hard on both ends. I had a flight manager cover for me as a new hire when I was late driving in one morning. When Santulli's name was spoken it was with reverence and you could almost hear the harps from heaven.

My point is it was not a miserable place to work a few years ago. The Union had been here for a while also. I don't know if we'll ever catch lightning in bottle again, but I hope maybe some of the magic will return when this is all over.

 

[Some Dude]

Yep I guess all those pilots at Southwest airlines are really miserable working at a union shop. All those union construction workers are really miserable. Don't forget all those union people that fought for overtime rules, a 40 hour week, health care, retirement, health and safety rules, those people are really miserable. You know who wasn't miserable?.....The slave owners. How happy are those Walmart workers?I bet they just love working their two and three jobs.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Don't forget all those union workers that toppled communist oppression in Poland.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Blah, Blah, Blah

But you'll see that soon enough down at the bottom of our seniority list. Get the gear biatch.

Ah, the infamous “Star-Boy” prophesizes once again.

Translation: I’m pissed because you got a better deal than me and your non-union. (which makes me cry deep within my psychic because not only do I make ½ of what you do, I still have to pay union dues) So I’m gonna get my buddies together and we’re gonna act like real Teamsters and take what is ours! Who’s with me……….

NJI Pilot response (GIV or GV that is): Aaahh, hey Debbie (the FA) that meal was delicious. We’re still 4 hours out from Tokyo, could I have another cup of Starbucks before you start making the omelet’s for breakfast?

As for your chest pounding, I believe you made the bold “just wait until June or July statement” and the “lawsuit is being filed next week statement” and the “next week they will understand we mean business statement.”

You’ve basically turned into “Baghdad Bob”

 

[Starman]

Wolfie -

We'll see. I'm betting I laugh last.

 

[h25b]

All those union construction workers are really miserable. Don't forget all those union people that fought for overtime rules, a 40 hour week, health care, retirement, health and safety rules, those people are really miserable. You know who wasn't miserable?.....The slave owners. How happy are those Walmart workers?I bet they just love working their two and three jobs.

Those that fought for and won the things you refer to were the unions of yesterday. The unions of today are slowly but surely in the process of giving it all back. Check out this thread...

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=58280

First year pay at Continental is just over $27,000 with no health insurance for the first 6 months. Continental and many other major airlines have been union shops for quite some time and evidently this is all they have been able to do for their new-hires. Classic example of what years of union representation will do for you.

Exactly what is the Teamster looking at for starting pay, or are you going to throw them under the train like all of the others ???

 

[El Chupacabra]

Wolfy and H2

The company stooges have been bragging that the current offer will make the teamster pilots highest paid in the FRACTIONAL Industry. Not good enough I agree and also a lie since the wolf and his buddies are in the Industry and make more.

But it sure looks like our non union brethren at competing companies should start looking to become Teamsters.

 

[h25b]

Wolfy and H2

But it sure looks like our non union brethren at competing companies should start looking to become Teamsters.

Your non-union brethren are probably waiting to see how successful you become in your quest.

 

[gunfyter]

Your non-union brethren are probably waiting to see how successful you become in your quest.

I just said according to the Stooges and Trolls we are already successful in negotiating best pay and benefits in the FRACTIONALs.

Now which is it?

Of course you know I can't accept that without being taunted by you and Catyaak for accepting low pay... I gotta go for NBAA pay.

 

[Schrode]

Ok. You heard all the bad stuff. Most of the time what does it involve? Pay.

You may have a "better job" (pay) but I have every other week off - at least until 1 January, (and then I can bid it longer if I wish). I get two weeks vacation (that's off work for 21 days folks, twice a year) and when I complete my 5th year, well, I get another week. After 10 years, I get 4 (count 'em boys) 21 day vacations! I NEVER fly tired. I get plenty to eat on the road, and we stay at great hotels - If there is one. If I find something wrong with the plane, where I think it shouldn't fly - It is grounded. I work hard for this company, unfortunately, they CHOOSE not to pay us a fair wage.

By the way, the Union always stands by the pilots to ensure fair treatment. But, if you do something wrong, or illegal, well - the company can still let you go. They protect you from WRONGFUL treatment, discrimination, harassment and violations of the AGREEMENT between the pilots and the Management.

See in your job, if the management DECIDES to pay you less - you and your family get less money until you can go and get that other, "great job" I am so jealous of. And you probably can get it too - to your credit. Good for you. Or if the boss says, "get me to Aspen tonight - or you're fired" what do you do? Me? I don't have to worry about that, cause I know I have Union protections - and my Company knows it.

NetJets has it's downfalls, but I'd say it is because they pay me less than the Flight Attendants! Not because we have a Union!

 

[FamilyGuy]

Ok. You heard all the bad stuff. Most of the time what does it involve? Pay.

You may have a "better job" (pay) but I have every other week off - at least until 1 January, (and then I can bid it longer if I wish). I get two weeks vacation (that's off work for 21 days folks, twice a year) and when I complete my 5th year, well, I get another week. After 10 years, I get 4 (count 'em boys) 21 day vacations! I NEVER fly tired. I get plenty to eat on the road, and we stay at great hotels - If there is one. If I find something wrong with the plane, where I think it shouldn't fly - It is grounded. I work hard for this company, unfortunately, they CHOOSE not to pay us a fair wage.

By the way, the Union always stands by the pilots to ensure fair treatment. But, if you do something wrong, or illegal, well - the company can still let you go. They protect you from WRONGFUL treatment, discrimination, harassment and violations of the AGREEMENT between the pilots and the Management.

See in your job, if the management DECIDES to pay you less - you and your family get less money until you can go and get that other, "great job" I am so jealous of. And you probably can get it too - to your credit. Good for you. Or if the boss says, "get me to Aspen tonight - or you're fired" what do you do? Me? I don't have to worry about that, cause I know I have Union protections - and my Company knows it.

NetJets has it's downfalls, but I'd say it is because they pay me less than the Flight Attendants! Not because we have a Union!

So make up your mind. Is the company treating you well or not?

If the only gripe you have is pay then why did the union just spend YEARS arguing about everything but pay?

Why does the union leadership put out 5 other 'S' on its list of demands?

Cut the crap and get the deal done.

 

[BortaS]

Ok. You heard all the bad stuff. Most of the time what does it involve? Pay.

You may have a "better job" (pay) but I have every other week off - at least until 1 January, (and then I can bid it longer if I wish). I get two weeks vacation (that's off work for 21 days folks, twice a year) and when I complete my 5th year, well, I get another week. After 10 years, I get 4 (count 'em boys) 21 day vacations! I NEVER fly tired. I get plenty to eat on the road, and we stay at great hotels - If there is one. If I find something wrong with the plane, where I think it shouldn't fly - It is grounded. I work hard for this company, unfortunately, they CHOOSE not to pay us a fair wage.

By the way, the Union always stands by the pilots to ensure fair treatment. But, if you do something wrong, or illegal, well - the company can still let you go. They protect you from WRONGFUL treatment, discrimination, harassment and violations of the AGREEMENT between the pilots and the Management.

See in your job, if the management DECIDES to pay you less - you and your family get less money until you can go and get that other, "great job" I am so jealous of. And you probably can get it too - to your credit. Good for you. Or if the boss says, "get me to Aspen tonight - or you're fired" what do you do? Me? I don't have to worry about that, cause I know I have Union protections - and my Company knows it.

NetJets has it's downfalls, but I'd say it is because they pay me less than the Flight Attendants! Not because we have a Union!

Unions will not stop a pay cut. Just ask all the alpa guys about that. When a company goes in the bag, not much the union can do except roll back, regroup and hope things turn around.

 

[gunfyter]

So make up your mind. Is the company treating you well or not?

If the only gripe you have is pay then why did the union just spend YEARS arguing about everything but pay?

Why does the union leadership put out 5 other 'S' on its list of demands?

Cut the crap and get the deal done.

Show me the money.... As in NBAA 90th percentile.

None of this BS fractional industry stuff. Don't want to hear it.