Avantair

[myrealnameis]

Yea, leave it to noodles to throw a negative spin in there.

 

[Noodles]

Yea, leave it to noodles to throw a negative spin in there.

What, exactly, do you disagree with? Did I say something that wasn't true?

 

[myrealnameis]

The training contract is true. From what I've heard, they've only ever held one person to it though that left inside that year. Also, your upgrade is based on how well they like you, so you may upgrade at the year mark, or you may not.

If you work more than the 7 1/2 days, you do get paid extra. I think the FO rate is $150/day, or something close to that.

There is no contract, and probably won't be one anytime soon. There was a push for a union over last Christmas, but the two guys that were trying to start it both got fired. There are rumors that there may be another try, but as long as the company keeps making promises to make changes, it probably won't go anywhere.

Anybody remember that Pilot Advisory Board from the last union push? Heard anything from it or seen any changes from it?

If you are truly interested in working at Avantair, just remember that not everything you read on this board is true. But, most of it is.

Lets see............

First of all, upgrades have more to do with performance than how well they like you or not. You have to earn the upgrade, its not automatic. If your not ready for the position, your not gonna upgrade its just that simple. Ive seen a couple of pilots that they liked, who couldnt fly to standards during upgrade training. They are still FO's.

FO overtime pay starts at $230 a day plus per diem.

You are correct that there is no contract. But, 2 pilots did not get fired for trying to start a union. It failed to get the required votes from the pilots. One of the pilots you are talking about got fired for making insulting remarks against the owners wife on this website and even mentioned her by name. The other pilot got caught in the cross fire, not cool. By the way he has since been re-hired with the company.

Your right about the pilot advisory board....no word from them lately.

And I agree with your last statement about what you hear on this board.

People can put thier own spin on anything they want.

 

[Flybet3]

Lets see............

First of all, upgrades have more to do with performance than how well they like you or not. You have to earn the upgrade, its not automatic. If your not ready for the position, your not gonna upgrade its just that simple. Ive seen a couple of pilots that they liked, who couldnt fly to standards during upgrade training. They are still FO's.

FO overtime pay starts at $230 a day plus per diem.

You are correct that there is no contract. But, 2 pilots did not get fired for trying to start a union. It failed to get the required votes from the pilots. One of the pilots you are talking about got fired for making insulting remarks against the owners wife on this website and even mentioned her by name. The other pilot got caught in the cross fire, not cool. By the way he has since been re-hired with the company.

Your right about the pilot advisory board....no word from them lately.

And I agree with your last statement about what you hear on this board.

People can put thier own spin on anything they want.

You took the words out of my mouth.

 

[Noodles]

Ok, so I was wrong about FO overtime pay. I knew it had been changed, but didn't know the amount. I was close.

As for upgrades, that was the last story I heard about upgrades, and, since I haven't seen anything "official" or anything written down, who knows how it will be handled.

I was aware that one of the people got their job back, and I still say he got fired for trying to start the union. The reason they gave him was bogus, and most people know that.

 

[myrealnameis]

Ok, so I was wrong about FO overtime pay. I knew it had been changed, but didn't know the amount. I was close.

As for upgrades, that was the last story I heard about upgrades, and, since I haven't seen anything "official" or anything written down, who knows how it will be handled.

I was aware that one of the people got their job back, and I still say he got fired for trying to start the union. The reason they gave him was bogus, and most people know that.

Alright,

I see your mistake in OT pay was on the Conservative side, i hope not to spin the negative.

As for what you "heard", does that sound logical? Come on, if the person flies like crap and doesn't know a generator from an inverter do you really think he or she is gonna upgrade? No matter if they are liked or not. On the other hand if the person flies great, meets and exceeds the flight standards, but is a jerk with all kinds of attitude do you think that is gonna qualify them for Captain? Performance is based on more that just flying skill. Its takes more than "being a good stick" to be Captain. Does that need to be written down? Common sense must prevail on this subject. What you have "heard" is probably from pilots that can't meet the standards.

As for the other pilot that got re-hired. Which you failed to mention in your post. I will say that his initial termination was BS. But that given, it wasn't because he was trying to start a union. You can spread that rumor all you want, its just not true.
Look at it this way............. your a new owner of a company barley there for a month you fork over untold millions of your own money for control of the company. You write another check for $230 million dollars to purchase a s#it load of planes, buying a bunch of pilots job security for their immediate future. All the sudden some yahoo starts making derogatory statements regarding your wife on an open forum, which by the way a few share holders view. And it turns out it was a couple of your own pilots, or so you thought........what are you gonna do? Well most men are gonna bury a foot in their ass. But that didn't happen instead he just fired them. Now, when the dust settled and it was discovered the other guy had nothing to do with it , he did the right thing and re-hired him. Every pilot who has met the owner has said that he is a very gracious and polite gentleman. But he is Italian so don't piss him off, I think that the other guy got off easy.

 

[johnsonrod]

Slightly off topic - when do the first Avanti IIs arrive and how many are expected through the end of 2006? How many were ordered/optioned total?

 

[myrealnameis]

Slightly off topic - when do the first Avanti IIs arrive and how many are expected through the end of 2006? How many were ordered/optioned total?

Delivery today for the Avanti II............well that was supposed to happen today, we should get it by the end of the week we hope. Supposed to get 1 a month until the order is finished, about 36 aircraft or so. Piaggio is way behind in deliveries to us. I expect to see 4 by the end of the year but you never know for certain with Piaggio.

 

[eagleatr]

Now, when the dust settled and it was discovered the other guy had nothing to do with it , he did the right thing and re-hired him.

Actually, having spoken directly with the person in question, that's not really how he got his job back.

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

Actually, having spoken directly with the person in question, that's not really how he got his job back.

You are correct, eagleatr. I know both of the pilots in question, and neither of them got fired for comments about the owner's wife and the pilot that got hired back went back for personal reasons. The pilot that is no longer with the company never even flew the owner's wife- that can be confirmed by anyone who wants to go back and look through the flight logs for that period, and neither of them was stupid enough to post on this website about the owner's wife. Both pilot's were given BS reasons for being fired, and everyone knows that. Avantair mangagement has been overheard by several people bragging that "they got rid of the people trying for the union." Interestingly enough, the folks that wanted the union in the first place still work there. Strange world.

And as I said in an earlier post- no I do not work for Avantair- just know alot of people there- some of them in a position to know the real facts.

myrealnameis- get your facts straight before you talk- false information can hurt good people's reputations.

 

[myrealnameis]

Ok i'll bite, what are the facts?

 

[eagleatr]

According to the person in question, he was speaking with the current CP and said something jokingly about Avantair hiring pilots, and where should he send a resume. Several days to a couple weeks later, he got a call, without ever actually sending in anything, with a class date. The whole thing is being handled as if he never left. He comes back at his old pay rate and with all the quals he left with.

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

Ok i'll bite, what are the facts?

Since you asked for the facts, I spent some time over the last few days confirming some things.

Nothing was mentioned to either pilot about comments about the owner's wife when they were fired. One pilot emailed me a tape recording file from his meeting. The exact wording on the audio was " Termination for creating a negative work enviroment." When pressed for furthur details, the persons representing the company said, " That's all the details we have." Also , the director of HR at the time commented, " I feel like I know least of what's going on out of the three of us in this meeting."The pilot also forwarded an email to me that he received a week prior to that in which he received a commendation from the company for going the extra mile a few times in relation to MX issues, etc. There was also an email that authorized this pilot and his co- captain to spend 30 dollars each on dinner and turn it in with their per diem in thanks for a letter from a share holder that contacted the company and raved about the service they received. Anyone doubting these facts can contact the expense manager for that period to confirm these details- if she still works there- last I heard she was leaving. This pilot never flew the owner's wife, which can be confirmed by flight logs, never met her, and therefore has no opinion on her, nor ever did. Neither pilot posted comments about her on this website, nor any website.

The point here is, myrealnameis, you posted as fact that one pilot was fired as a result of comments about the owner's wife and the other got caught in the crossfire. That isn't true. If anyone was fired because of such comments, which is unlikely, because of comments made since by Avair mangagement, a grave mistake was made. First of all, if there were comments made on this website, firing anyone over it would be a shot in the dark in relation to their identity. Even if identity could be confirmed somehow, any hard- working employee would have the right to a warning or a probation period. Avantair's employee manual states that employees will be terminated for the " most serious of infractions " and then only after two warnings. From what you're saying, suspicion of comments made would constitute that. But this is a side issue, because nobody was fired over any comments.

To summarize, neither pilot deserved what happened. Someone mentioned earlier that Avantair is a growing company, and not everyone can fit. Very true, but it's still a shame when stand-up people get the shaft by greedy, non-caring management. But, ******************** happens.

I'm going to end this lenghthy post by saying, as I've said previously, that I am personally acquainted with both of these gentlemen, and have flown with both of them long before they worked for Avantair. My only interest here is to set the record straight if I can. It annoys me when uninformed parties post falsehoods as fact.

Neither of the two above mentioned pilots recommended nor approved any of my comments on this website.

 

[CastofThousands]

All,

If the Avantair pilots, or at least a majority, desire Union representation simply do the following:

1) Develop an Organizing Committee
2) Contact Local 1108 Executive Board member, and NetJets Captain, Amy Vidovich ([email protected] - (866) 505-1108 - www.ibt1108.org). She will without a doubt get involved with any Fractional Company organizing drive. She will also get the resources, professional consultants, experienced pilot Union leaders, attorneys, etc., together to assure a successful campaign.
3) Ask Amy for a secured Local 1108 message board forum dedicated to Avantair pilots. Only confirmed pilots on the seniority list will be granted access. Throughout the organizing campaign all identities on the 1108 message board will remain concealed.
4) Start collecting NMB representation cards from the pilot group and mail them to Local 1108. When at least 2/3 of the pilots at Avantair have submitted their cards to Local 1108 (cards remain secured and confidential) Local 1108 will hand deliver the cards to the NMB and request a representation election.
5) Once the cards are delivered the NMB has a target of 90 to 120 days to complete the vote.

Amy worked the process with the Flight Options pilots and is working the process with interested FlexJet pilots (who need to kick it in the butt). It's my understanding it Local 1108 is reworking their bylaws to delegate autonomy and funds to each pilot group's direct elected representatives.


The process of organizing, receiving NMB certification, serving "Section 6 notification," and securing a first contract is long and hard - years not months. With a company in its embryonic stage I would strongly recommend sooner, than later.


Strong Union representation begins with strong leaders within the pilot group.


Sincerely,

 

[myrealnameis]

Hmmm good read,
Enlightenment achieved!
Tape recordings and emails...come on. This sounds like the makings of a Hollywood movie. Norma Rea II. Gonna have to get a man for the lead part though, might have to change the name of the title. Perhaps Sally Field can still make a cameo. Anyway I'll wait for it to come out on video. I guess its not true that the other pilot got his job back with the company, you know with the greedy management and all. Did he slip in under the radar? Does greedy management know he's back? oh oh maybe they gave him his job back to fend off a lawsuit against greedy management by him. OR maybe it was really sexual harassment or discrimination of some sort. Yes,,,Yes I'm sure of it. It all makes sense to me now. But, that leaves me wondering, if the place is so bad, then why the hell do you work there? And why would the other guy come back to work them? Or maybe Mr. Pebbles , just maybe, we are both full of $hit and the truth lies somewhere in the middle of both our posts. All thought I'm now leaning towards the sexual harassment argument.......Those Greedy Bastards.

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

Hmmm good read,
Enlightenment achieved!
Tape recordings and emails...come on. This sounds like the makings of a Hollywood movie. Norma Rea II. Gonna have to get a man for the lead part though, might have to change the name of the title. Perhaps Sally Field can still make a cameo. Anyway I'll wait for it to come out on video. I guess its not true that the other pilot got his job back with the company, you know with the greedy management and all. Did he slip in under the radar? Does greedy management know he's back? oh oh maybe they gave him his job back to fend off a lawsuit against greedy management by him. OR maybe it was really sexual harassment or discrimination of some sort. Yes,,,Yes I'm sure of it. It all makes sense to me now. But, that leaves me wondering, if the place is so bad, then why the hell do you work there? And why would the other guy come back to work them? Or maybe Mr. Pebbles , just maybe, we are both full of $hit and the truth lies somewhere in the middle of both our posts. All thought I'm now leaning towards the sexual harassment argument.......Those Greedy Bastards.

I dont work for Avantair- as I've said before. I just know a lot of people there. And your sarcasm is lost on me. I just posted because I know the people involved and also to clear up your lies. Obviously as soon as someone knows some real facts, you try to discredit them with sarcasm and empty comments. That means anything you post isnt worth anything to begin with. Good job. You're turning out exactly as I figured- not interested in the truth, and uncaring about anything but your own agenda, which at this point is unclear. If you were a stand up person, you would simply say, " I was uninformed, and I'm sorry for posting untruths." But, I would suspect you do not have the moral character for that.

 

[myrealnameis]

I apologize, I was uninformed. Uninformed that you do not work for my company. All you offer is hearsay to the controversy. Obviously promoting your own agenda. An agenda with the focus to undermine the employees and management of my company. To harm and weaken it. To cause a rift. You offer no first hand knowledge. Your statement of "I know some people that work there" will gain you little respect or credibility with many pilots at my company. Your an outsider. Why am I wasting my time with you? I am gonna let this thread die on that note.

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

I apologize, I was uninformed. Uninformed that you do not work for my company. All you offer is hearsay to the controversy. Obviously promoting your own agenda. An agenda with the focus to undermine the employees and management of my company. To harm and weaken it. To cause a rift. You offer no first hand knowledge. Your statement of "I know some people that work there" will gain you little respect or credibility with many pilots at my company. Your an outsider. Why am I wasting my time with you? I am gonna let this thread die on that note.

My only agenda was to counter your lies. Whether or not I work there has nothing to do with the truth, or the fact that you posted lies. You turned out to be the same as most folks- a coward, who goes from asking for the facts, to running and resorting to sarcasm and empty posts when faced with knowledge. Thank you for being typical of your company. You guys are easy. The people involved here know the truth and they always will.