Avantair thriving in this economic downturn...

[C425Driver]

BD,

Agreed. Like I said, salaries aren't the only factor, but they are a contributor. I don't think we're doing a whole lot of buy backs as our sales team is reporting record sales. Most of our sales are charter cards and Axis membership but we are still selling and growing. A couple of passengers told me that they bought charter cards and will use those until they receive their buyout from their previous frac. At that time they intend to buy a fractional share from us.

If I recall correctly, last quarter we posted a 1.8M profit - not much in the big scheme of things but it's progress in the right direction. Now, if we increase our pilot salaries by 30% to bring them closer to someone's idea of industry norm, then you are talking about increasing our pilot payroll by over 4M. You don't have to be a math major to figure out that the salary increase would cost Avantair too much. Also, if the pilots get a raise the rest of the employees are going to want a raise as well (and rightfully so) whch would be even more devestating to our bottom line. At Avantair in our current situation, salaries can have a significant affect on the bottom line.

 

[fischman]

Some people have come on here and bashed what our COO makes. In my opinion, he earned it. When his predecessor was shown the door, KB had a lot of work to do - or I should say he had a lot of work to undo. The wasteful spending by the previos COO was costing us dearly. KB came in and reviewed all of the contracts that she had signed with vendors and renegotiated or cancelled almost all of them. This is a project that's still going on over a year later and it's a major contributor in taking us out of the red and into the black. He didn't do that on the backs of the pilots or any other employee group - he did it on good business sense.

"Be careful what you ask for."

 

[BeeDubya]

BD,

Agreed. Like I said, salaries aren't the only factor, but they are a contributor. I don't think we're doing a whole lot of buy backs as our sales team is reporting record sales. Most of our sales are charter cards and Axis membership but we are still selling and growing.

First, it's BW... for Brian Ward... However, my middle initial is D... so I'm okay with BD.

Second, I was referring to your post that salaries were "contributing" to the layoffs and NJ's Voluntary Measures -- that high salaries were why the companies were taking the actions each took. My point was that if you look at what is occurring at each of the jet fractionals, salaries, (no matter high or low) are negligible when compared to the other factors -- specifically, increased inventory. In other words, I was talking about the fractionals that had laid off or were facing potential layoffs.

Now, whether higher salaries have a negative effect on Avantair's profits, that depends. If nothing else changed, then yes, it would. If productivity increased or fees were adjusted accordingly, then it may have no negative effect (also dependant on sales patterns). Certainly it's good to be profitable, but other questions should also be asked, what is the company doing with the profits? Is it growing the business? What kind of benefits and bonuses are going to other employees and employee groups?

 

[harley30344]

The company is making money. The people working there seem to be happy. Why are certain people on this forum trying to make them feel guilty or bad about their wages and compensation? If the employees don't want a union then leave them alone. This is exactly what I've spoken about on other forums. NJW, you continuously push the pro-union agenda--have you EVER considered that just maybe that isn't always the answer? If a union works for you great, but don't try to make others feel badly because they don't want to follow your path.

Go ahead flamers--I know someone will take a personal shot simply because I disagree with their philosophy.

 

[C425Driver]

The BD was a shortened reference to BeeDubya, that's all.

I agree with the statements that you are making. My point was countering someone else's view that we should be increasing our salaries to match others in the industry on some principle. If we did that we would be in the red. I'm all for making as much money as I can, but not when it's going to put us back in the red.

And while I agree that there are more significant factors than salaries for other company's layoffs and salaries aren't the only "why" layoffs/early outs were necessary, salary is a contributor - not the one and only reason. I think that dead horse is beaten enough, no?

 

[HazMat]

By your fifth year you are a captain at Avantair and most likely it would occur much sooner than that. So if we are comparing 5 year salaries we are making more since you are still an FO at Netjets. I would imagine the upgrades to captain are going to be way out at the other fractionals we are looking at two years. Can we stop the argument now. Most importantly we are not down sizing and losing our jobs. Something you all refuse to comment on.

 

[netjetwife]

Harley, this is a fair pay issue, not a Union issue as NJI and CS--both non-union--have set their pay at the top of the scale. I have already stated that a Union is not always required for employees to receive the going rate. The point is that there is a big discrepancy in the frac industry that cannot be justified when you look at the job description.

I am fully aware that some pilotgroups have formed Councils to represent their interests in discussions with managers. In the matter of pay, at some fracs that is enough. Clearly it works for the Shares pilots; when NJA pilots got a raise so did they--both times. Thus, when I advocate pilots standing up for themselves to achieve industry standard pay, I am including those who use a Council form of representation. I have posted as such in the past, but some who missed those threads often make the false assumption that I believe a Union is required for fair pay. Those posters, yourself included, are the ones trying to turn a pay discussion into a union vs non-union issue--not me...

 

[netjetwife]

By your fifth year you are a captain at Avantair and most likely it would occur much sooner than that. So if we are comparing 5 year salaries (In the interest of being informed participants, I'd like to see us compare them at all levels.) we are making more since you are still an FO at Netjets. That is something that should be looked at by the NJ pilots. I would imagine the upgrades to captain are going to be way out at the other fractionals we are looking at two years. Can we stop the argument now. Most importantly we are not down sizing and losing our jobs. Something you all refuse to comment on.

I don't see this as an argument and I'm sorry that you do. I view this exchange as helpful information-sharing. As for commenting on the fact that Avantair is not downsizing, I have already done so-- in the beginning of the thread when I congratulated your group on its growth. I see it as bittersweet. While it gives me hope that things aren't as grim for the industry as I had previously thought, it does concern me that the lower payscale at Avantair is a possible factor in their ability to draw new owners from the other fracs. To me, the silver lining in the economic cloud hanging over us would be hearing that Avantair pilots had gotten a raise. I'm disappointed that's not the case--yet. Your future appears promising so congrats on that.

Guys, I do get it that you see yourselves as making an investment in your careers there. I realize that you are proud of Avantair and see yourselves as helping to build the company. Kudos to you all for your hard work and loyalty. I sincerely hope that it all works out because you and your families deserve it to. Unfortunately, it doesn't always go that way--thus my concern. Life is full of gray areas and there can be a fine line between investing in the future and subsidizing a company that uses lower labor costs to grab market share. For the sake of Avantair employees/families, and the rest of the frac families, hopefully the growth and rising profits there will result in increased wages (for those not currently making the going rate) and we will all find that your investment and loyalty has been reciprocated. I will be thrilled if my worry turns out to be for naught. Wishing the best for all frac families in these uncertain times, NJW

 

[glasspilot]

For the sake of Avantair employees/families, and the rest of the frac families, hopefully the growth and rising profits there will result in increased wages (for those not currently making the going rate) and we will all find that your investment and loyalty has been reciprocated. I will be thrilled if my worry turns out to be for naught. Wishing the best for all frac families in these uncertain times, NJW

What is the "going rate" for a pilot NetJetWife? I'm serious...please, do tell.

It occurs to me that you make half of what your husband makes. I know other wives that sit around and post on the internet all day that make much less. Perhaps the wives of America should band together and start a union. You all do the same work, shouldn't you all share the same rewards? Maybe, as you suggest, my friends wife is undercutting my wife in order to gain market share.

 

[brokeflyer]

hey njw.....with all respect.

maybe it's time to just leave this one alone. Let's concentrate on other things.

these guys are all grown up and can make up their own minds.