ATTN: Chitauqua pilots

[WTFOVER]

I dont know if you guys have already voted on your new TA but I have a horrible feeling that you have and that it actually has a chance to pass. Im not going to judge but I am going to tell you what I think. ITS THE BIGGEST PEICE OF S*&^ TA IVE SEEN IN YEARS. If it passes you are sending a message to Regional Airline management that they can continue to pay FO's as much as any high school graduate can make and in many cases less. You are aslo sending a message to Major Airline management that they can continue to farm out major airline flying to Regionals for 1/3 of the cost. Times are changing every month. But you are only allowed to vote on a TA every 3-5 years. Make it one that you deserve. And if they dont want to give it to you then Walk. It may sound like descent money for Captains, and allow the company to grow, but whatever you gain you will loose 4 times as much in slowed career progression. You (we) will never fly for a major at this rate. The majors will simply be brand names, who farm out all their flying to the lowest bidder. I will have my chance soon to send a message myself. But I encourage all of you to not weeken my chances or you own to get what you deserve. We are our Own worst enemies. Lets put a stop to it. Dont do what Mesa did. There are other jobs out there. I will do anything to get by financially before I will whore myself to the airlines. For those that wish to flame me....Yes I have been whoring myself, but it will stop soon. This is a different time than it was 3 years ago. I dont think Im better than anyone, I just want to encourage pilots to think long term. The only way this joke of a payscale, like the one on Chitauquas new TA, will stop is to say enough is enough. There are more airlines behind you that will do the same, their time is just not up yet. Mesa had a chance but they failed. Comair had a chance, and put up a hell of a fight but they also did not make great progress. Now its your turn. Flame away.

 

[350DRIVER]

Right> but I think that this will pass without a second thought... I think most at CHQ are more concerned with growth, potential, new equipment, etc, etc, etc... I would be highly surprised if this vote is even close.


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[WTFOVER]

Thats exactly what Im trying to get accross to people is the short-sightedness of growth and new equipment. Who cares if your flying a new airplane if you cant afford to raise a family, and who cares if you are a Captain on 70 seat jet making 65/hr when a Capatain at NWA is flying a 100 seat jet making 140/hr. (accuracy of figures is unknown, just trying to make a point.)

I say this to all "Regional" pilots, which in most cases is an inaccurate term, have the BALLS to stand up and say NO!

I dont have all the answers, but I do know that the industry needs a "shot accross the bow" to warn management not to F&^% with pilots. We are only worth what we can negotiate. And if CHQ pilots say their FO's are worth 21/hr then I guess thats what they are worth. I for one am worth more than that, and if it were my vote, it would be NO.

 

[350DRIVER]

Thats exactly what Im trying to get accross to people is the short-sightedness of growth and new equipment. Who cares if your flying a new airplane if you cant afford to raise a family, and who cares if you are a Captain on 70 seat jet making 65/hr when a Capatain at NWA is flying a 100 seat jet making 140/hr. (accuracy of figures is unknown, just trying to make a point.)

Understandable BUT one must realize that the majority of the first officers that will be voting I am sure think this TA is the greatest thing that they have ever seen.. Many are young, lower time pilots who are coming from a flight instructing background who weigh the option of either instructing in a 152 or flying a new ERJ145. I have a feeling that most are going to put all else aside and choose to vote "yes" even though this may not be the "correct" thing to do for the industry. When you are young and nieve sometimes "strange" things seem to happen. Like I said I would doubt that this vote is even going to be close.

I say this to all "Regional" pilots, which in most cases is an inaccurate term, have the BALLS to stand up and say NO!

I do not see this happening. Even though most see the big picture I don't even think that this will even be close. You have to give the group credit though since they did get some things that will make life a little better but it surely doesn't help my chances of getting back to Delta. ( this time as a pilot) The trend will continue for years to come to take the flying and give it to the lowest bidder and many will be stuck at the regional level for much longer than they would like. Other than going to a SWA, Air Tran, ATA, AWA, , , (which is fine) it won't help anyone get to a NWA, UAL, DAL, or other major... I think we are going to be in for a rough ride atleast for the pilots who aspire to fly for a "major" airline at some point in their career.

I dont have all the answers, but I do know that the industry needs a "shot accross the bow" to warn management not to F&^% with pilots. We are only worth what we can negotiate. And if CHQ pilots say their FO's are worth 21/hr then I guess thats what they are worth. I for one am worth more than that, and if it were my vote, it would be NO.

Once again, would you like to go back to instructing in a 152 making little if any or fly right seat in a new ERJ.? - I think many of the "younger" folks would & will choose to go fly the ERJ. I just don't see this vote even being close although I have been wrong once or twice.. - I think that this vote probably will be won or lost by the more senior pilots and whether or not they are willing to accept. Should be quite interesting



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[WTFOVER]

I knew that somebody would attempt to rip me apart on this. It just goes to show you how misinformed most of us are.

You can try to attack me but you gave no argument.

First, sorry for spelling the name wrong, but gimme a friggin break.

Second, when I see a Chautauqua pilot, I am not going to try and give him a hard time for voting in a crappy contract, and I am not going to think it has any reflection on his skills as a pilot. I am trying to inform people of what is going on. I am not judging people, just the contract.

Third, How can you say this is none of my business. This effects ALL commercial pilots. Idustry standards are what other airlines use to negotiate contracts. The only reason that Major Airline pay reached six figure salaries for pilots is because after deregulation, there were no "regionals" to farm the flying out to. Now Airline Management sees just how low they can pay pilots and all that Major flying is going to the Regionals. We may never fly anything made by Boeing or make any more than an auto mechanic.

So please if your gonna argue give me more than "you can't spell," and "Its none of your business." Otherwise it is you that has lost credibility.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I agree

I agree whole-heartedly.

What you do at Chautauqua WILL, in fact, have an impact at "regional" airline bargaining throughout the industry.

Defend your profession.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

F/O Pay Below Average

Another Comparison:

First Officer Pay - years 1 through 4

CHQ / Industry Avg.

21.00 / 20.31
28.25 / 30.93
32.50 / 33.15
33.50 / 34.38

Chautauqua's First Officer pay is below average in three of the 4 years listed.

And the first guy who types, "But we're all going to be Captains in 3 years" is forgetting that the growth isn't going to last forever and that SOME F/Os will be stuck with the substandard payrates that you're giving them for a very, VERY long time.

First Officer is not a place to sit while you wait for an upgrade. The F/O is the Captain's best friend. He's the guy who is going to keep you out of trouble. Allowing them to be paid LESS than average at an airline the size of Chautauqua is a disservice to the First Officers, and a disservice to the entire industry.

Don't Scr@w Your Buddy!!!

 

[rptrain]

KingAirer,

can you please stop posting numbers all over creation? you've posted this exact data and similar tables several times now. i'm not even sure what you're trying to illustrate. you're also not averaging every operator (ACA, AWAC, PCL, TSA), so it's not very scientific. also, it's a little fuzzy to use CHQ in computing the average when comparing their new TA to the so-called average.

"People can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that." - Homer

 

[WTFOVER]

The Chautauqua TA is not even up-to-par with many other Regional contracts. Yes, I have read the entire thing. I know very well that a contract is not only about Pay, but many other issues. But the fact remains that this TA sucks. Have you read it Les Paul? It is a step in the wrong direction.

Afraid of loosing your job?.....Cry me a Friggin river. Step up to the plate guys. Demand to be treated like the professionals that you are. 3 year Fos get les than a .50 raise. Trust me, there are gonna be plenty of 3-6 year Fo's there soon. The growth will stop when Delta decides to farm out more flying to a new carrier.

Its just a race to the bottom guys. I dont want to win that race.

 

[WTFOVER]

Les Paul, so far you are the only one who opposes me with you r petty little arguments about my spelling. Since when is spelling a sign of credibility? Everybody misspells and Im suprised that you think you are so perfect that you dont.

Im glad that you have a secure job, but you are being selfish with your "Ive got mine" attitude. Get a clue. This argument obviously doesnt interest you, and you seem to think that it doesnt concern you even though it does. So just let the mature adults discuss the future of our industry, while you just take it as it comes.