Attention Former Jetblue Pilots

[linepilot]

linepilot
Do you support Obama's health inssurance reform?

Why?
Do you have some tortured logic which justifies the lies you were all told?
Have you crafted some talking points that makes "values" and sewer level, wal-mart style health insurance harmonious?
Do you have some self-delusion to share that will help us all find the happy place that you live in?

 

[linepilot]

What is the upside the law firm see?
Here are some facts to consider.
Depending on the defendant's attitude, a class action may take many times longer or quite a bit shorter than individual cases. Some drag on for 10 years, while others settle in six months. The usual order of events is that after a complaint is filed, the parties do limited investigation into whether the action fits the class action requirements. The plaintiffs then ask the court for class certification. If the court says yes, there may be more investigation or the case may settle. If the court says no, the case will proceed only for the few individuals named as plaintiffs in the complaint and not for the rest of the group.
The vast majority of class action cases are settled if they are certified or if the defendant believes they will be. The class members are notified of the proposed settlement and given an opportunity to join in or object to its terms. Some types of class actions require that you send in an "opt-in" form to join. For others, you're in if you do nothing. After the class members respond to the proposed settlement, a court determines whether the settlement is fair and reasonable.
In recent years, some politicians and legal pundits have become increasingly vehement in their criticism of plaintiffs' attorneys who specialize in class actions, because of the many highly publicized settlements that seem to result in a windfall for the attorneys and little benefit for the harmed plaintiffs. Attorney's fees for class actions are usually a percentage of the common fund set up to compensate the class. The lawyers sometimes walk away with millions of dollars in fees, while individual class members receive small amounts or coupons. It is misleading, however, to compare the lawyer's fees to the individual recoveries in class actions, because the lawyer represents the whole class. In judging fairness, courts look at the relationship of the fee to the value of the overall recovery.

On the other hand, some attorneys may overreach and rush into a settlement that isn't good for the class. Overworked courts sometimes do not examine class settlements closely enough. Here are some things to look for in the fine print when you are reviewing a class settlement:

• Does the notice tell the amount of the attorney's fee or its percentage of the overall settlement? Nondisclosure is a red flag.
• Has the defendant agreed not to challenge class counsel's attorney's fees? Such "clear sailing" agreements are common, but combined with other factors may signal that the defendant is getting a better deal than the class.
• Did the settlement come fast on the heels of the complaint being filed, with little or no investigation by class counsel? The notice should summarize the investigation.
• Is the release of claims broader than the wrongdoings claimed in the original lawsuit? For example, if the action only covered one of the company's products, you shouldn't have to release all claims against the company in the settlement.
• Does the class member get any real benefit from the settlement? Sometimes benefits are intangible but worthwhile, such as when a company agrees to stop polluting. But if the complaint claimed money damages, class members should be wary of settlements in which only the lawyers get paid. "Coupon settlements" for money off the next purchase are often criticized, but can be valuable if the coupon gives a good discount on a desired product.

The main benefit of class actions is that they level the playing field when individuals join together to take on a big company. The main danger is that if class actions are handled irresponsibly, class members can lose more than they gain.

You're quite the crusader, aren't you?

 

[FNG320]

Originally Posted by FNG320
It is not greed. It is lost wages. Lost wages due to inflation. Lost wages for no pay raises from 2001-2007 and minor ones after that. A retro pay raise of 26% would correct for the 22-24% inflation and then give us enough for another year. It is not greed, it is what we were promised from the beginning (but they failed to deliver)

Just my opinion.......

FNG

FNG,

You've just shown you true colors. This is about getting back at the company.

True Colors? All I have pushed for is annual pay raises/COLA to keep our pay scale level with inflation. Not a windfall like most of the other major airlines have had in the past. I want the pay that was promised to us by management (which they have failed to provide). I want what we are due. I want what we were promised/are owed/deserves/have earned. I want what we have paid for with our blood/sweat/tears/QOL.

Question...

Do you honestly feel that raising the pay of everyone just because the new hire pay was raised, was the true intent of this language?

Yes. It is a perfect example of how JetBlue wrote the contract to proivde automatic pay raises for everyone by chaning one. However, seems that those that wrote it forgot about it or have left and others are now trying to pick up the pieces. Every time we have had an ammendment, JetBlue has made additional changes to our contact to remove/change things that have nothing to do with the pay rates or PTO. They have constantly been shaping our contract to hurt the pilots, taking things away from us. This is just one that they didn't take out and the pilots finially realized why they left it alone. Becuase if they tried to take it out, we would finally realize what it really meant. What it was really intended for and that it would cost them money to live up to their contractual obligations. I think they left it alone hoping we would never notice it. Don't forget management always makes up live up to our contact or you get fired.

Honest answer, now. Don't answer just based on what the wording appears to say.

Naturally the answer is no. (you are wrong, but you have your won opinion and we all know what they say about opinion.......)

This was not the intent of the company, nor was it your understanding at the time you signed the agreement. (wrong again. Since you were not there, you have no way of knowing)

The company owes you nothing, and in arbitration will be ruled accordingly.

That is why we have a grievence process. We will see. LLBL would not have taken the case if they didn't think we were right. Especially with the fact that they do not get any pay unless they win. I trust LLBL much more than your "interpretations" of contract law. Time for JetBLue management to live up to their contractual and legal obligations and stop building the company on the backs of the employees.

 

[FNG320]

That's sad Chef. Please remember that we are talking about your career...your paycheck if you will. JetBlue may not be your soulmate but it does pay your bills. Maybe you don't rely on JetBlue for your everyday needs as I see you have an extensive military background but allot of people including myself do. Military pension maybe? From the aircraft that you have flown I can only assume that this is your first airline but I may be wrong.

With a civilian background (no military pension) and after 3 airlines that include 2 bankruptcies I have finally found an airline in JB that treats and pays me well. I want to retire here. Sure there could be improvements and that will always be the case. Nothing is perfect but this is far from bad...trust me...I've seen bad.

I know it's the unpopular thing to say, but a little more "emotional attachment" and pride in your company may not be such a bad thing...for all of us.

Emotional attachment? Hey, when JetBlue LIES to you year after year for 5-7-9 years all emotions is gone. EVERYTHING they do is business. EVERYTHING they do is to reduce cost or minimzie the expense. Why do you thing that a major portion of the new PEA (and the last few PEA) have been cost netural or have cost reductions in them! JetBlue has failed to live up to the promises year after year. They have been more interested in profits and growth than investing in the pilot group. Don't forget when this company was making 10/15/17% profit margins and inflation was upwards of 8-9% they still would not proivde us a COLA/pay raise to counter inflations.

You are right, everyone looks at their position based on where they are and where they came from. You accuse most retire military as being in the lead on this beucase they have an outside income and medical. Well, that is actually 100% wrong. Actually most of our retired military tend to just leave things alone saying "Oh, it doesn't affect me cause I have enough" regardless of inflation, promsies or the needs of other.

Yes, we have many pilots that came to JetBlue and are now making more than they ever have in thier life. The perfect example are the pilots we have hired over the years that came from the regional/out of the military (not retired) and upgraded to the left seat within a year (1999-2003) or pilots hired right out of a regional who were only FO there (2004-present). Yes, many of these pilots are making more than they ever have in thier life, but they have limited experience to draw from in making thier decision/opinion.

Yes, it is hard to explain to a former MESA FO (only airline job) is making more money than he has ever seen that we are under paid and we need a 22-24% pay raise for inflation to correct our pay. They are biased based on thier own experiences (or lack of experience).

In your case, you have alot of "scar tissue". You have my sympathy. It does hurt when we each make bad career decisions (and we all have in one way or another). Often you can't tell they are bad till you are invested in those companies with years of seniority (20/20 hindsight). However, you need to look at things without emotion. Look at the facts. Look at the truth and the years of broken promsied. Yes, you were not here for the early broken promises and LIES, but it does not mean they didn't exist. It doesn't mean that the don't affect those that were lied to. However, I have no doubt that you have been here thru many of the more recent lies "Oh, you are paid industry averages" "Oh, we have some of the best medical coverage in the nation" "Oh, we can't afford to give you a pay raise" "Oh, there is nothing in the new ammendment that is robbing Peter to pay Paul" just to repeat a few

As for emotional attachement to JetBlue. I will tell you that 100% of our pilots were emotionally invested in JetBlue in the beginning (and I mean all of us). However, the constant LIES, manipulations, cost neutral changes have diluted the Blue Koolaid to the point that many now see the truth and have lost that emotional attachment. It just depends on when you got there, how long you have been here and your own personal background. Why should anyone give 110% when it doesn't benefit you any more. We all use to give 110% and the only thing we got was words "thanks for all you do", lost of income, reduced benefits, etc. As kids approach college, or as a pilot get closer to retirement you will find that words are not enough any more. Word only mean somthing if they are followed up with real action, real change, real improvements, not cost netutral changes.

Just my opinion......

FNG

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I'm pretty sure it's not a class action.

 

[shadesofBS]

I'm pretty sure it's not a class action.

It's not. It's a dispute resolution process. LLBL is only representing the client pilots during the process.

 

[Vingus]

FNG, it is bad enough having to listen your your constant rhetoric on Bluepilot/B6pilots. You showing your head here is downright horrifying!

As for emotional attachment, I look at it this way. I want to come to work and have some amount of fun. I want to play nice with my crew and smile at the customers.

What some of you guys don't get is that in almost every other profession, anyone that just showed up and did the min with a piss-poor attitude would be fired in about 10 seconds flat.

Not giving a crap about your company is, IMO, like being in an emotionally abusive relationship and not leaving. Some people have left bad marriages behind and started fresh. Why don't you? The airline landscaped has changed. And just asking for more money in this landscape isn't going to get the industry back to where it was in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. The rise of the LCCs and 9/11 have changed everything.

Nobody owes anyone anything in this world. It doesn't mean you don't work for fair wages and workrules. But some of your sense's of entitlements are mindboggling!

 

[V2+10]

FNG, thanks for your insightful and well thought out response. It is truly a bummer however that the industry is not hiring right now as it is quite obvious that you and Chef would be much happier someplace other than JetBlue. Come to think of it, the majority of us that take pride in our company would be happier to see you attain your goals as well...someplace else. Good luck.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

As for emotional attachment, I look at it this way. I want to come to work and have some amount of fun. I want to play nice with my crew and smile at the customers.

As do I. And I do. Still, no emotional attachment.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

FNG, thanks for your insightful and well thought out response. It is truly a bummer however that the industry is not hiring right now as it is quite obvious that you and Chef would be much happier someplace other than JetBlue. Come to think of it, the majority of us that take pride in our company would be happier to see you attain your goals as well...someplace else. Good luck.

Pride? It's sinful.

It is truly amazing how you leap to conclusions about me and how I feel about JetBlue. Maybe if I had a cool pilot login like V2+10 ... NOW that's a career pilot. A professional pilot. A pilot that thinks ... pilot ... all the time.

Search my posts if you'd like some insight. JetBlue is a good place, with many flaws. But it's a job dude. Get over it. It helps you with time off, and that's where you live your life. Or do you build airplanes and fly airplanes and talk airplanes on your time off too?

Isn't it conceivable that some of us don't? And maybe that's why IT'S JUST A FREAKING JOB? Maybe I'd be more involved if the pilots at JetBlue would stand up for themselves and their profession.

I tell you, I must have flunked the Blue Culture Symposium during indoc. I still do my job though. As for the minimum, Vingus, if that means flying airplanes and not killing people, well then I guess I am guilty.