Atten Mesa Bashers!

[SanJuanPlebe]

G-Dmn it you guys!!!

Get your F*cking Facts Straight!!!

MESA DID NOT ACCEPT LESS TO FLY RJ's. EVERY SECTION OF THEIR CONTRACT WAS AN IMPROVEMENT EXCEPT MINIMUM BID GUARANTEE!!! EVERY GD'mn SECTION!!! I AM SO TIRED OF YOU A$$HOLES BLAMING YOUR LOT IN LIFE ON MESA!!! AT LEAST GET THE RIGHT INFORMATION!!! THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH OUR COUNTRY! WE ALWAYS WANT TO "BLAME" SOMEONE ELSE FOR OUR TROUBLES!!!!

Jesus Christ you guys! I don't have a problem with you accusing us of not "holding the line" and getting what Air Wisconsin or someone else has, but for crying out loud! Stop this Bull$hit about saying and accusing us of taking a lower wage! We improved our wages..not much, but they improved...especially consdidering we are bumping up against America West Captain pay and we are only flying RJs!!!!

Almost every pilot I know has a college degree. And almost every degree I've heard of requires some sort of economics/finance class.

Was everyone who posts on this board asleep during these classes?

While I hope and wish the best for ACA, I suspect a lot of pilots are ignoring the glaring financial implications of their decision and the tough, but not impossible road ahead. High ASMs on the RJ are killer. Tough gig without revenue guarantee.

Supply and demand baby, supply and demand.

The plebe

 

[WSurf]

It's not your hourly rate that is the issue! Its your work rules, they are terrible. Our CEO would glady pay us at Piedmont 90.00hr to fly a dash 8, but in return he would want work rules back. Minimum Day, Block or Better, CX Pay, Vaction, Sick Pay, Per Diem, all those add up at the end of the month (with our work rules I avg. 110hrs a month pay, without work rules maybe 75hrs).
And you do have a direct effect on the industry, my friend was part of the SkyWay MEC and when they were in neg. management keep throwing your contract in there face. Segment pay, per deim, bunch of things they wanted to improve. But there managment said, well Mesa does it!
I think that what makes people mad is that for over the last 10 years regionals have worked get things and improve the quality of life for us, Comair being the last to hold the line. And to see you guys cave in on a contract that has bad work rules leaves a bad taste in everyones mouth.
Maybe I have no clue, but thats how I heel about it.

 

[Skank]

ACA was in a tough bargaining position because UAL brought in Mesa and TSA, as well as having just signed new contracts with Air Wisconsin and Skywest. Essentially UAL was telling ACA that they could be replaced. The new contracts with TSA and Mesa sure didn't help any.

 

[Skull-One]

Our MGT team is telling us we'll be *LUCKY* to get a "Mesa Contract." That's a direct threat. Mesa continues to get shoved down the throats of this pilot group. If you guys did so well on your contract, why do I keep having it used as a weapon against me?

 

[captjim]

SanJuanPlebe, your contract is far inferior to almost every new contract out there. Did your pilot group even look and see what everyone else had. Don't get mad at us becouse you guys signed a POS contract, and are getting backlash for it. We told you on this board that that was going to happen. Maybe in 6 years you guys will grow a pair. Until then deal with it.

 

[Simon Says]

SanJuanPlebe,

Our 7 year old contract beats your new contract in all sections except 1. And that would be scope protection.

Your new contract is CR@P. You all should've striked.

by the way I keep an original list of all Freedom Pilots.

 

[acaTerry]

EVERY SECTION OF THEIR CONTRACT WAS AN IMPROVEMENT EXCEPT MINIMUM BID GUARANTEE!!! EVERY GD'mn SECTION!!!

Please explain to us idiots how going from 11 days off to 8 is an improvement. BTW, God has nothing to do with this. Pick another way to cuss if you can't express yourself in intelligent words.

 

[Beantown]

[/B]

Please explain to us idiots how going from 11 days off to 8 is an improvement. [/B]

Terry, You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. No surprise on this board though. Per MONTH, Mesa pilots are guaranteed 9 days off on reserve and 11 as line holders. This didn't change with the new contract. -Bean

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

We never would have survived to the strike phase. Our 200's were in the process of being wet leased to Midway as each new 700 showed up in PHX.

The plan was to get rid of Mesa and get Freedom going while letting our ALPA brothers at Midway fly Mesa's 200's for USAir.

The NMB was never gonna release us for self help in time for it to make a difference.

Comair was on strike prior to 9-11. We supported their efforts just as every other airline did. But, their contract was the last one negotiated in that environment.

CHQ has voted to strike, but it is meaningless unless the nmb says go ahead and walk the line, its been over a month since they all voted for it if I recall.

I agree the contract is sh*tty, (and Machdog1 will hate us until he dies), but we were all feeling the burn at Mesa just to keep our jobs at all. I for one feel bad that it may have hurt the others who are bargaining, but we had Eagle's contract thrown at us too.

Please carry the Freedom list around. Those are the guys who made the Mesa contract really possible.

To the rest of you, good luck, get what you can.

When they say Mesa, you say Comair; when they say Eagle you say Air Whiskey; and hopefully when all is said and done your deal is better than where you started.

 

[WSurf]

Nice Post!!! Sorry you work for Mesa.

 

[ArcticFlier]

G-Dmn it you guys!!!

Get your F*cking Facts Straight!!!

MESA DID NOT ACCEPT LESS TO FLY RJ's. EVERY SECTION OF THEIR CONTRACT WAS AN IMPROVEMENT EXCEPT MINIMUM BID GUARANTEE!!! EVERY GD'mn SECTION!!! I AM SO TIRED OF YOU A$$HOLES BLAMING YOUR LOT IN LIFE ON MESA!!! AT LEAST GET THE RIGHT INFORMATION!!! THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH OUR COUNTRY! WE ALWAYS WANT TO "BLAME" SOMEONE ELSE FOR OUR TROUBLES!!!!

Jesus Christ you guys! I don't have a problem with you accusing us of not "holding the line" and getting what Air Wisconsin or someone else has, but for crying out loud! Stop this Bull$hit about saying and accusing us of taking a lower wage! We improved our wages..not much, but they improved...especially consdidering we are bumping up against America West Captain pay and we are only flying RJs!!!!

Almost every pilot I know has a college degree. And almost every degree I've heard of requires some sort of economics/finance class.

Was everyone who posts on this board asleep during these classes?

While I hope and wish the best for ACA, I suspect a lot of pilots are ignoring the glaring financial implications of their decision and the tough, but not impossible road ahead. High ASMs on the RJ are killer. Tough gig without revenue guarantee.

Supply and demand baby, supply and demand.

The plebe

HHHMMMMM.....something about he who protests loudest comes to mind.

AF

 

[WileE]

Changes.

In the new contract at Mesa, some of the basics, this isn't comprehensive people, just the main points:

What improved:

Pay went up (not much but yes it did go up)

Per diem went up 15% (not much again, but it did go up)

Days off went up (contrary to others ignorance the number of guaranteed days off went up under the new contract)

Controlled cancellation pay (better than no cancellation pay at all)

All open time is paid at time and a half now (this is probably the biggest improvement, especially considering how short the company is on pilots right now. For most people I know this has been like flying 10-15 more hours a month pay wise without actually flying anymore than you would have before. ANYTHING not on your monthly line that you fly is time and a half)

Scope (haven't seen the company try and test this yet so it's an unproven clause so far, looks great on paper. So far it's meant no furloughs and job security at least.)

Guaranteed annual pay raises (as opposed to no pay raises for 4 years under the old contract)


Things that stayed the same:

No minimum days.

Vacation is the same (2 weeks a year after the first year).

Sick days are the same. (pulling a brain fart on the formula, but no change)

Block pay only (sucks but it's not a change)


Things that got worse:

Seatlocks (really blows for everyone not already on the jet. MEC realy dropped the ball on this one)

Loss of move days (Again a fumble by the MEC. This really hurts the 1900 guys more than anyone else, but since we weren't really represented and the MEC doesn't give a flying about non jet guys, it's no suprise)

Freedom Scum stay on the 700/900's (this one really chaffs. The MEC promised that these guys would get bumped out but it isn't happening. They sold us up the river on this one)

Jets4Jobs. (It would be just OK if the company was sticking to the rules, but they aren't. These guys are only supposed to fly on the new jets that were bought for the US Air system but the company is using them all over instead of running upgrade classes. Union is letting them get away with it.)

Instructor incentives are gone (this will probably change in an LOA since no new pilots will become an instructor or IOE Captain now)



Personally I think the MEC, ALPA and ALPA's lawyers that worked the contract flat out lied to the pilot group at times to get us to approve the contract. In hindsight they played up growth, scope and the small improvements and downplayed the stuff that sucked. In downplaying everything in the roadshow they emphasized that all that would change in LOA's to fine tune the final product. With a couple small exceptions in the company's favor that hasn't happened, and I think they knew that it wouldn't happen and glossed them over when pilots tried to call them on it. ALPA is expert at teaching their cronies how to work spin.

Did I vote yes? Yes I did. Why? Because I believed the union about the LOA's. Because I believed them when they said that if I didn't I'd be on furlough again (actually I think they were right about that). Because I naively believed that the MEC worked for us and not ALPA main (like most of the other MESA pilots on site this was my first time involved in a Union negotiation). And because Freedom was only getting bigger by the day with all the scumbags willing to work there.

Would I have voted yes knowing everthing I have seen since it was signed? I honestly don't know. Probably not.

 

[acaTerry]

Per MONTH, Mesa pilots are guaranteed 9 days off on reserve and 11 as line holders. This didn't change with the new contract. -Bean

This conflicts with the word I'm getting from someone I know at Mesa. He went from 14 day off lineholding DCA ERJ CA to 8 days off on reserve. He's pissed.
In any case, 9 days off even for a RSV pilot is unacceptable. The probem I'm guessing with Mesa, as well as any regional, is that the "minimum" becomes the goal.

 

[WileE]

"This conflicts with the word I'm getting from someone I know at Mesa. He went from 14 day off lineholding DCA ERJ CA to 8 days off on reserve. He's pissed. "

That would have happened regardless of whether the contract was signed or not. Most lines are 12-14 days off then and now, above the minimum. The fact that he can't hold a line now (or bid reserve for some strange reason I can't imagine) has nothing to do with the contract, just with his position on the seniority list in that domicile.

By the contract reserve has 8 days off per 28 day bid. A line has 10 days guaranteed per 28 day bid. Under the old contract it was 9 days off for a line holder. Does this still suck? Yessireebob, it sure does. Welcome to Mesa dude.

 

[big dog1]

We have a MEC!!! LOL

No minimum days.

Vacation is the same (2 weeks a year after the first year).

Sick days are the same. (pulling a brain fart on the formula, but no change)

Block pay only (sucks but it's not a change)


Things that got worse:

Seatlocks (really blows for everyone not already on the jet. MEC realy dropped the ball on this one)

Loss of move days (Again a fumble by the MEC. This really hurts the 1900 guys more than anyone else, but since we weren't really represented and the MEC doesn't give a flying about non jet guys, it's no suprise)

Freedom Scum stay on the 700/900's (this one really chaffs. The MEC promised that these guys would get bumped out but it isn't happening. They sold us up the river on this one)

Jets4Jobs. (It would be just OK if the company was sticking to the rules, but they aren't. These guys are only supposed to fly on the new jets that were bought for the US Air system but the company is using them all over instead of running upgrade classes. Union is letting them get away with it.)

 

[LR25]

What does a 2 yr mesa rightseater make?

 

[Beantown]

What does a 2 yr mesa rightseater make?

$30 and change on an RJ. -Bean

 

[wscrj]

2nd Year FO Pay

Here are the rates for a 2nd year FO:

0-19 TP $20.39
20-74 TP $20.39
50-59 Jet $27.42
60-76 Jet $27.42
77-<86 K lbs. $27.42

Also, to correct a previous post, after 5 years pilots get 3 weeks vacation. After 20 years, it goes to 4 weeks.

Sick time is accrued per bid period (28 days) and increases as longevity does:
1st year - 1.4/bid or 18.2 for the year.
2-4 year - 2/bid or 26 for the year.
5-up - 2.5/bid or 32.5 for the year.

70 hr guarantee per bid, or 910 for the year.

 

[e120pilot]

Just as a frame of reference....ASA's contract was signed in 1998 and a second year E120 FO makes $26.75. That's about 67 cents per hour less than a 2nd year CRJ-900 FO at Mesa (carrying 3 times the number of pax). That's pretty sad.

 

[CitationLover]

no offense e120

a contract from 1998 (when you could've been hired as an fo with 300hrs) and 2002 (when you can't get hired with 4000hrs) is a BIT of a difference.

economics seem to drive labor negotiations....mesa was in the wrong place at the wrong time.