ATP Written Expiration?

[PA31Ho]

I took the ATP written probably a good 3-4 years ago. At the time, I was Part 121, but I have been back and forth between 121 and 91 since. Did it expire when I left the 121 job for the part 91 job?

The reason I ask is because I'm 121 now but leaving for 135 and have to do a 135 type ride in the Hawker. Do I need to retake the damn thing?

Thanks!

 

[Amish RakeFight]

My understanding is that it never expires if it is current when hired on at a 121. It is still good even after 2 years if you are still employed with the carrier. Once you leave the carrier and go elsewhere, it automatically expires.

If it was more than 2 years when you moved over to 91, then it is most likely expired.

Honestly, I don't understand why some guys don't go out and drop the loot on their ATP when they hit 1500 at a 121. Waiting for an upgrade ride to clinch the certificate seems silly, especially in light of long upgrades and potential furloughs.

 

[PilotSkydiver]

It's all in the wording of the regs. People always use the expired term wrong... It expires after 2 years, period.... However you may use an expired ATP written for a transition or upgrade program for 135 or 121! Hope this helps!!

 

[PA31Ho]

I guess what I'm trying to get at is:

I took the ATP Written 6/8/2005. Then I went to Piedmont Airlines. Quit there a year later, went and flew part 91 for a year. On May 31, 2007 (still within 2 years), I went to Shuttle America. With a furlough coming on Sept. 9, I will be leaving for a Part 135 company and going back to school for the Hawker type. For an ATP cert, do I need to retake the ATP Written, or is it still good?

 

[Andy Neill]

Here is the pertinent reg (Part 61.39)
(b) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs (a)(1) and (2) of this section, an applicant for an airline transport pilot certificate or an additional rating to an airline transport certificate may take the practical test for that certificate or rating with an expired knowledge test report, provided that the applicant:
(1) Is employed as a flight crewmember by a certificate holder under part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter at the time of the practical test and has satisfactorily accomplished that operator's approved—
(i) Pilot in command aircraft qualification training program that is appropriate to the certificate and rating sought; and
(ii) Qualification training requirements appropriate to the certificate and rating sought; or
***********
So, in your case, at the time you take the practical test (check ride) will you be in the employ of a 121 or 135 operator?
Will you have completed their training for PIC qualification in the aircraft in which you will take your practical?

If so, your written can be expired and that's OK. The way I read your situation is that you will not have completed any employers PIC program in the Hawker so you will need to retake for your ATP practical.

 

[PA31Ho]

Oh great! That's good to know! I was afraid I'd have to memorize those w/b answers for that test again.. phew... I'm too lazy for that

Thanks!

 

[Andy Neill]

Oh great! That's good to know! I was afraid I'd have to memorize those w/b answers for that test again.. phew... I'm too lazy for that

Thanks!

I say again, the way I read your situation, you will have to retake.

 

[PA31Ho]

Okay the way I read it was since I WILL be doing a 135 PIC I won't have to retake... hmmm

 

[Andy Neill]

I thought you were taking a Hawker ride as part of Simuflite's training. Simuflight isn't a part 135 operator. Are you saying that you will be going through your new Part 135 operator's training program or Simuflight's?

 

[PA31Ho]

The new employee is part 135 op that is sending me to SimuFlite for the HS125 recurrent upgrade.

 

[Andy Neill]

If you can convince the examiner that Simuflite's training is your new employer's PIC training program, you're golden, but I don't think you can.

 

[svcta]

At Simuflite you'll be taking a checkride with a designee that does 135 PIC rides and there is no reason that I can think of that would disallow an approved 142 training program from being considered company training. As a matter of fact. the bulk of all jet operators farm out their sim training (if not sim and ground) to schools just like this. Some airlines even send students to sims off the property and it's all a part of an approved company training program.

In any event, call Simuflite and put their expertise to work for you. It's their job and they see this kind of stuff all the time.

 

[JAFI]

Svcta, is correct. The type ride is from the Designee who is authorized to conduct ATP exams in that aircraft/simulator. The Designee is also a Approved Company Check Airman who conducts the 135 PIC exam (6 month check). What you are really getting is the 135 PIC exam and the type ride is based on the successful completion of the 135 PIC exam.

To answer the first question: Do ATP test results expire - yes, on their expration date. BUT, if you are in an uprade air carrier training program, expired test results are still good.

 

[PA31Ho]

SVCTA:

Yes, that's what my impression was. That even though it's expired, I can still take it because I will be doing a 135 program.

Thanks all.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Good luck on your ride, PA31Ho.

 

[PA31Ho]

Called Simuflite... Written does not need to be taken again because I will be doing the type ride on my new employers 135 certificate.

Thanks for the info.