ATP vs. Type

[Dog51]

New to this site so here it goes...I have about 2 years of Hawg flying left before I call this active duty thing complete and I am trying to start lining up the ducks. I have done a bit of research into getting the ATP done but I have heard some noise about getting the Type rating also. I know SWA is the only one that requires it and I am willing to spend the money but I have heard grumblings that some majors may look at it like an over-qualification or a hint you may be holding out for SWA...which is definitely not the case...anything in the northeast is good with me. Anybody have any words???

 

[FDJ2]

You can get the type and the ATP at the same time. IOW, your 737 type rating ride could also get you your ATP.

JMO, but I wouldn't worry too much about another carrier being concerned that you might go to SWA. You're just making yourself more marketable in a very competitive environment. That 737 type would demonstrate not only your commitment to making yourself more competitive for a part 121 job, but it would also demonstrate a proven ability to train in transport category aircraft to part 121 standards. I can't think of too many carriers worth their salt that would possibly hold that type rating against you, but plenty would look favorably on it. It's great that your out there flying Hogs, it takes a great deal of fine airmanship, judgement and situational awareness. A 737 type, however, could help balance out your resume. Back when DAL was hiring they asked Plato which he preferred military trained pilots or civilian trained pilots, after discussing the benefits of both he stated that he preferred those who had both military and civilian training. If the cost isn't an issue for you, I'd go for the 737 type. Good luck.

 

[SiuDude]

You can't get the type without getting the ATP. IOW, your 737 type rating would also get you your ATP.

So you can't be the PIC of any jet or any plane over 12.5 without an ATP? Or are you just talking about the 737?

 

[xdashdriver]

Of course you can get a type without an ATP....you can have a Private Certificate with a type rating on it. Some people do not qualify for an ATP when they do their type rating (i.e. do not have the flight experience or written done). An ATP and a type rating can be issued concurrently however, as the type rating checkride is, for all intents and purposes, an ATP checkride. So....if you meet the flight experience minimums and go take an ATP written, then you can have your ATP issued along with your type rating when you go for your type ride.

 

[xdashdriver]

So you can't be the PIC of any jet or any plane over 12.5 without an ATP? Or are you just talking about the 737?

An ATP is only required for most 121 ops and some 135 ops....other than that....an ATP is never required by the FAA. It's the type rating you need for aicraft over 12.5, any jet, or other special cases that the FAA determines. No requirement for an ATP unless you need one for 121 or 135 operations.

 

[Ty Webb]

Come on, Salukidawg, you're embarassing your alumni . . . .

You can get a B737 type rating on a Commercial, or even a Private certificate, if you want. Maybe FDJ2 is talking about a requirement for getting the type paid for by Uncle Sam.

For the Hogdriver asking the question- just take the ATP written before the type training, and you can make your B737 type ride your ATP ride, too, at least for civilian guys . . . . I would imagine milspec guys can, too. If anybody asks why you have a 737 type . . . .say you got your ATP in a 737!

Seriously, I would just say, "I needed my ATP, and the military made the 737 type available to me, so I figured I might as well get it that way".

 

[FDJ2]

Of course you can get a type without an ATP....you can have a Private Certificate with a type rating on it.

Wow, I haven't thought of too many people executing their private pilot certificate priviledges with a 737, but I guess it's possible and some folks have the bucks. At any rate I stand corrected and I have amended my previous post.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I did my atp in a citation. Got both the atp and ce-500 in one ride. Worked out nicely (yes you do need the written done first and meet the minimum flight experience it's no big deal though)

As for needing an atp, in this job market I doubt any major would ever call without the atp even though it's not required for the f/o

p.s. there are several people that have type ratings without an atp
John Travolta, Michael Dorn, Arnold Palmer, they all have just a private license.

 

[FracCapt]

If your VA benefits pay for it, I say go for the 737 type. Do your ATP written before you go, and your type ride will also be your ATP ride. Same exact maneuvers, so no difference in the checkride. I recently did my type with Higher Power in Dallas,and there was an ANG guy(C130) there getting his type and ATP at the same time. Only difference between him and the rest of us was a different box checked on his 8710, and he had to have his ATP written results for the ride. I don't know if he was using his VA benefits or not...but there was also a Navy guy in the class(still active duty) that was using his VA benefits, and it was all paid for.

 

[Snoopy58]

If the VA benefits will pay for all or most of the cost of the type, by all means, go for it. If getting the type is on your dime, then it's a harder question. Advantages of doing the type rating course and getting both at once:

- better preparation for the ATP ride. The "ATP-in-a-weekend" courses will have you feeling BARELY comfortable in the Duchess (or whatever they use) by the time you take the ride. It'll probably work for you, but you'll feel MUCH more comfortable with the sim taking a type rating course.

- the training is a good preparation for the way the civillian flying world does business and does training at the airline level.

- The 737 type is not going away soon as a gotta-have-it for a job with SWA, and it's about 99% required for an interview. If SWA is an option you're considering, having the type makes you competitive; lacking it means forget about it.

Advantages to NOT getting the type:

- save a fair bit of cash (if you're paying for it)
- some possible "holding out for SWA" stigma. Some places won't care, others will accept a thoughful explanation for why you got it, others will nod & smile and figure that you're really hoping for SWA regardless of what you say, and unless they're willing to be a "temporary job" until #1 makes an offer, they'll slide your app to the side.
- For an A-10 driver, I strongly doubt having a 737 type will prove very much to the likes of Jet Blue or AirTran or FedEx in terms of "he can handle -121 training." If you'd been flying Canyon tours in a caravan, or a turbine crop duster for your turbine PIC time, I'd say it would add some "he's trainable in this environment" credibility... but you aren't hurting for credibility in the realm of high-performance and IFR flight.

Again, if the type training would be paid for by somebody else, I'd say by all means go ahead & get it, because the schools (HPA and K&S particularly) have very good training programs. If you're footting the entire bill, I'd be much less certain... could well be worth saving the several thou difference between an ATP course and a type course.

FWIW, I did my ATP ride in the 737 sim as my 737 type ride... but I also knew I wanted to go to SWA as my first choice. YMMV. Good luck!

 

[kelbill]

Dog, you been sitting too close to the depleted uranium if you pass up doing the ATP/737Type combo. You say two more years before you pull the handgrips? Well, at least a few majors will still have furloughees in two years, so no 737 type just cut your odds of getting hired down by about 30% I would wager to guess. SWA will be hiring 400+ a year for the forseeable future (barring any wacky events) whereas if things go well for the industry, the other majors will for the most part just start catching their breath. That isn't a slam on any airline, just the facts as they stand. We need more A-10 guys here to offset the Viper mafia. I'm a heavy guy, so take that as a complement.

Good Luck, and good hunting if and when you are overseas.

 

[PastFastMover]

Wow, I haven't thought of too many people executing their private pilot certificate priviledges with a 737, but I guess it's possible .

I was working at a flight school back in the late 60's in California. Had an actor with alot of bucks get a type in a Lear Jet. I think he was just a private pilot, but may have had his commercial also. Definitely did not have an ATP or even want one.

Dog51, enjoy flying that ugly thing while you can. I don't know if it is like when I did it, but after coming out of the military or getting ready to get out, you can take a written exam from the Feds that gives you a commercial and instrument rating. You are definitely qualified. Then like others already said, take your ATP written and then do the 737 Type thing if that is what you want. Definitely try to do your ATP written early and not wait to do it concurrently with your 737 training. If you do them concurrently and screw up the written exam, you just may get a commercial or private type in that 737 whether you want it or not.

 

[F16TJ]

kelbill...

Dog, you been sitting too close to the depleted uranium if you pass up doing the ATP/737Type combo. You say two more years before you pull the handgrips? Well, at least a few majors will still have furloughees in two years, so no 737 type just cut your odds of getting hired down by about 30% I would wager to guess. SWA will be hiring 400+ a year for the forseeable future (barring any wacky events) whereas if things go well for the industry, the other majors will for the most part just start catching their breath. That isn't a slam on any airline, just the facts as they stand. We need more A-10 guys here to offset the Viper mafia. I'm a heavy guy, so take that as a complement.

Good Luck, and good hunting if and when you are overseas.

There's no Viper mafia...as far as you know!

 

[rhinodriver]

Just did my ATP at ALLATPS last December and it was easy. Having said that... I wish now (and probably will go ahead and do it) that I would have done the type thing. Kind of hard to get 20+ days away from the squadron to do it though. If you do decide to get the type I think the VA will cover 60% so you can still expect to shell out a couple of grand -vs- $1200 for the ATP. If you do go for the type, check out the study software from sheppard air (www.sheppardair.com) for the ATP written. They have the scaled down question bank vice 1600 question study guide from Gleim.

 

[F16TJ]

All joking aside, I'm getting my ATP practical done in conjunction with my B737 type next month. I looked at the cost benefit ratio (ATP at ALLATPS and then the type vs ATP and type together) and it just made more sense to combine it all together.


Dog51: You're doing good to start early. Read Albie15's thread in the Mil transition forum to get some good gouge on the timeline.

Out.