ATP Seminole Crash

[Kaman]

Hello,
You are indeed correct that the PA-44-180 is not approved for spins. I cannot think of any light twins that are, and spinning one intentionally is someting that only a factory/NASA test pilot would ever attempt. And in doing so the aircraft would be fitted with a spin chute and the pilot provided with a "quick-action" egress capability and parachute.
What is so ironic is that I know one of the last guys that Josh trained before this mishap. He said that he was a very good instructor, so time and investigation will hopefully lead to some answers to keep anyone out of potential "coffin corner".

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[bigD]

I don't have any real Seminole time - is there a good, noticable buffet before the stall? In the Duchess, the stall horn will go off well before the buffet, but even the buffet is very noticable, and you kind of have to work to get it past the buffet and into a full stall.

When doing Vmc demos, there have been a couple of times where I've had the horn go off before I've run out of rudder authority, and the one time the horn didn't go off, I recovered upon feeling the buffet. Still, there seemed to be ample warning to pull the good engine to idle before any kind of stall. Is it easier to be caught off guard in the Seminole?

I realize this accident could have had nothing to do with this - my post is more just an independant question. I do Vmc demos a lot when I practice, and am curious.

 

[Kaman]

Hey BigD,
It sounds like the Vmc charcteristics of the Duchess and Seminole are quite similar. One would have to almost intentionally ignore all the airframe of the incipient stall let alone the stall warning horn and allow the airplane to enter a spin. Typically, if Vmc is performed correctly the Seminole will stall first with ample warning.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[rjcap]

Typically, if Vmc is performed correctly the Seminole will stall first with ample warning.

That will depend on power output of the Lycoming engine which is dependent on pressure altitude.

If you carry three adults and a load of fuel you can get the CG somewhat to the rear of this plane. Add to that a lower power output of the operating engine then you can easily stall this plane before it Vmc's. I can only guess the stall recovery was not quick enough which allowed for the aircraft to begin a rotation around the yaw axis resulting in a flat spin that was unrecoverable. Just a guess.


signed,

exATP instructor.

 

[wickedpilot]

If you carry three adults and a load of fuel you can get the CG somewhat to the rear of this plane

and not to mention a dog!....terrible story.

God Bless them/families/friends

 

[ShawnC]

The dog sounds like one of those little lap dogs. From a post above.

 

[FutureRJPilot]

This makes me feel very un-easy as I just did my first Vmc demo a week ago, didn't think it was a big deal until reading this post, scary stuff.

 

[EagleRJ]

Has any one here spun a Seminole? Is it unrecoverable?

If anyone has, and if it wasn't, they won't be on this message board, will they? Think about it! ;-)

The Seminole is a fairly docile twin. With plenty of rudder authority and no tip tanks to increase spin inertia, I would think it would recover from a spin normally. The key though, as on any twin, is remembering to reduce the operating engine to idle first.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

If memory serves correctly (less and less these days) no civilian twin has to be flight tested for spin characteristics at all. If you spin one you are now the test pilot. I've heard a number of stories of the end of Barrons because of this. So far I've not heard of anyone entering a spin in a Barron and surviving. Don't know of anyone ever getting into a spin in the Seminole or Ducthess.

 

[WrightAvia]

this accident brings to mind a different crash that stood out to me when I heard about it. even with exceeding gross weight the guy should have been able to make a power reduction on the good engine and make a good glide to an off airport landing. You'd think? It's a few years old, but it's a good read.


http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001208X08959&ntsbno=CHI98FA028&akey=1