ATP Rating - the industry standard?

[El Cid Av8or]

As I posted in another thread that I didn't want to get off-topic...

It is probably a misunderstanding on my part as I haven't researched it thoroughly yet but, I thought that it was more geared towards airline-style flying (i.e Part 121 with dispatchers, etc.). I guess it's kind of like a PhD...everybody has their Masters so the PhD is the next level. I don't mean to stereotype or generalize in saying that but that's about the only comparison I could think of at this moment. Also, I thought that some "entry-level" jobs (those traditionally known for time-building - instructing, freight, pipe-lines, etc) and charter ops frowned upon the ATP. If you have it, they think you're just in there for a while until you get on with the airlines. Now, before anyone jumps to the perception I don't want them to... I am not putting down the freight, instructing, pipe-line, etc jobs. I'll be doing them too and when I do, it will be with pride and respect for the job. I question the experience gained by those who just use these types of jobs as stepping stones without actually gaining anything but hours in the logbook.
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What do ya'll think? Is it a "requirement" for a professional flight career? I am heading for the corporate or fractional type of career and I do plan on getting my ATP rating and any other one I can as well. I think adding ratings are great for gaining various types of experience. You never know when a sea-plane rating may come in handy when you're flying over the ocean. Also, they say teaching someone else how to fly will teach you a lot too (or at least help you remember anything you forgot).

Can someone shed a little more light (okay, a lot more) on what the Airline Transport Pilot rating is all about?

 

[avbug]

El Cid,

The ATP is not a rating, but a pilot certificate; specifically, it denotes a level of certification.

Being the holder of an ATP certificate, I have never knowingly been discriminated against because of a higher level of certification. I have on occasion been told that I am overqualified for a job, which surprised me. However, on these occasions, the reasoning of the person telling me this was that the job paid very little, and was considered more of an entry level job...they very seldom received applications or enquiries from those who hold an ATP certificate.

I'm not proud. I don't mind working hard and getting dirty, and much of my experience in flight has been in the working side of aviation. No white shirts, no glitz. Even in this environment, nobody has questioned my ATP. It represents a known standard, and signifies that one has sought out and received additional training. It represents the fact that one is serious about one's career and flying.

That said, I have flown with many individuals who do not hold an instrument rating, because it's unnecessary for their type of flying (I'm trying to get one such individual through his rating right now). I don't look down on them or question their motives, but they would be inelligible or many positions that require an instrument rating. Their careers, and therefore options, are limited.

Conversely, I can seek work and obtain it in most any segment of the industry, if need be. My ATP and prior experience allows me to seek airline or charter positions, while my ag, fire, and other misc working backgrounds help in those areas. I believe that if a pilot wants some degree of understanding and security, then a well rounded background is important. Obtaining the ATP doesn't take away from this, it complements it.

I would disagree with the statement that the ATP represents the equivilent of the PHd of the flying world. It doesn't. It's essentially a glorified instrument rating...in fact that's all it is. It's an instrument rating that requires a higher minimum number of hours to obtain...but an instrument rating all the same.

Like any other airman certificate, the ATP is just a license to learn. It's not a great hallmark of achievement. It's a simple certification that an individual has met a bare minimum standard...the rest is up to the individual.

 

[bobbysamd]

ATP

I've always told people that the ATP is essentially a souped-up instrument rating. I had any number of instrument students who flew to ATP standards. For that matter, I flew with Private pilots who were far sharper sticks than many Commercial certificate holders I knew and could pass an ATP ride with their abilities. The ATP standards aren't that much tougher than the instrument rating. Just the same, it is still a milestone in a professional pilot's career. I was always very proud of my ATP.

As a practical matter, you need to gain control over your quals and present the best ones possible. Pilots have little control over economic times and the savants who review resumes and applications. They can take control over some of their quals, though, by presenting the highest grade of certificate possible. The ATP is one such certificate. Yes, you can apply for jobs with your Commercial and wait for a company-paid upgrade. However, many of your peers will go the extra mile and pay for the ATP themselves. Their ATPs might be the difference between you and the other guy being hired. Why sacrifice that advantage? Go get your ATP.

 

[banned username 2]

I did my ATP at the flight school I was instructing at... I was teaching regularly in the twin and didn't even go up and do a practice flight... just called up the examiner and took my check ride at 1,527 hours (back then you couldn't take the written before you had 1,500 hours, so I took my written at 1,504 and my checkride a few days later at 1,527)

The ATP isn't the end all, be all of Certificates... it is the "Final" or "highest" FAA Certificate that is available... My anology in another forum was only a very vague, and I tried to put it in laymen terms...

A Doctorates Degree is the highest degree you can hold, as the ATP is the highest FAA certificate you can hold...

As far as your gola of Corporate or Fractional... I believe NetJets requires 2,500 hours AND an ATP certificate....

I know my company requires an ATP certificate and somewhere in the vicinity of 5,000 hours to get hired... If you don't have an ATP, the resume goes in the circular file...

Hope this helps...

 

[El Cid Av8or]

Thanks!

Thanks for the info on and clarification of the ATP rating. Even more reasons for me to get one for myself. Still have a long way to go though...

Blue Skies & Tailwinds...

 

[Kingairrick]

ATP

One more thought.

I work for a company that is sort of middle of the road in the aviation world. We have some low-time guys that want to go to the airlines, some mid-time guys that like the money, and some high-time ex airline guys. We operate king airs up to Challenger 604s. One requirement is non-negotiable: ATP.