ATP qualification question

[rchcfi]

A cross country flight is any flight that lands at a point other than the point of departure. Any flight that lands at a point other than the point of departure may be counted toward the cross country requirements of Part 135.



A cross country flight for the purposes of meeting the experience requirements of an ATP certificate does not require a landing at any point other than the point of departure. However, the flight at some point must extend to a distance at least 50 nm from the point of departure.

OK, now I am going to ask a very stupid question after putting the two statements together. I think I'm reading gray area here.

The above two statements seem to offer a different interpretation to me. What it sounds like is that you can fly to any other destination OR fly somewhere at least 50NM away and return to origin to be able to qualify for the ATP cross country hours. Basically the way I read it (between the lines of course) is that, by the Feds putting that reg. in there about the 50NM out and back, it just allows more flexibility for flightsee operators. So the origin to destination cross country time would apply AS WELL regardless of distance. Does this make sense?

Thanks

 

[A Squared]

I think it mentions that if you are employed by a carrier and pass the PIC etc..._at the time it expires_ then you are ok. Well, do you have to be with that carrier (the one you were employed by when it expired) when you take the ATP ride? If you go to another carrier, does it invalidate the written?

Deadstick, the reg has been re-written several times in the last 20 years. Previous versions had requirements for your employment being continuous, or for your employment having started within a certain time of having taken the knowledge test. Also the exception only applied to 121 or 135 commuter pilots.

All that has changed. In the current version of the regulation the only restriction is that you are employed by a 121, 125 or 135 operator at the time of the *practical* test, and you have passed the aforementioned training. There are no restritions in length, timing or continuity of employment.


rchcfi,

There are 5 definitions of cross country, which one you use depends on the what you're trying to use the cross country experience for.

1) generic cross country, used for meeting 135 minumuns and perhaps some other applications.

2) Cross country for meeting the requirements of a private commercial or instrument.

3) Cross country for meeting the requirements of a private, commercial or instrument in a helicopter.

4) Cross country for meeting the requirements of the ATP.

5) Cross country for a military pilot meeting the requirements of a Commercial certificate.

All of these definitions are in 61.1(b)(3) If you read that carefully, it should clear up any questions you have.

 

[deadstick]

A^2, thanks, that's good news for me. Another note, I SWEAR I read about the 50 nm point/turn around with the same from/to airports, but I went looking and only found what you wrote. Have you seen what I'm talking about elsewhere?

 

[A Squared]

Another note, I SWEAR I read about the 50 nm point/turn around with the same from/to airports, but I went looking and only found what you wrote. Have you seen what I'm talking about elsewhere?

deadstick,

Go back and read it again little more closely. don't mix requirements from the different definitions of XC. Each one of the definitions in 61.1(b)(3)(i) through(v) stands by itself. For the ATP, the relevant part is 61.1(b)(3)(iv) If you read that you'll see that there is no requirement for a landing. (Other than the one demanded by physics) Oh, and make sure that your FAR is newer than 1997.

 

[MetroSheriff]

so sorry....but last i checked it was 2004....i dont live in the past.
I didnt even start my private till 97....

That may be true but I would guess you were an arrogant ass long before that.

Cheers Intern....

 

[A Squared]

well, without delving into the subject of whether or not U of I is an arrogant punk or whatever, the fact remains he was/is right.

ok, I'll delve a little. Frankly I didn't see his response a being arrogant at all.

He said "LAX is wrong" that's not arrogant, that's just an accurate observation.

His response about living in the past was perhaps a little flippant, but it was an entirely appropriate response to the inane comment that LAX wasn't wrong when he got his ATP ... ummm, what earthly relevance does that have? Anyone who reads my posts knows I have more than a passing interest in what the regulations were, and how they came to be, but at the end of the day, the only thing that counts is what the regulation says today.

I think that what's really happening here is that a couple of you have your tailfeathers ruffled because some low time punk had the temerity to correct somone with much more flight experience than himself. Perhaps it would have been more palatable is U of I had said something like
"begging your pardon, your air-worthiness, but my humble and worthless opinion is that you are incorrect....sir"

So LAX is an old and hoary aviator who got his ATP way back in the last century ...that still doesn't change the fact that he gave a factually incorrect answer to the question. While I can appreciate that it's been a while since the reg was relevant to him, and that he didn't have access to his regs at the time, I would suggest that it would be better to not respond that to respond with an incorrect answer.

You all are pretty insecure if you can't stand having a low timer correctly point out that you are wrong.

 

[MetroSheriff]

A 2,

You make some good points. I think it is a simple case of not what you say but how you say it. It is a good habit to not let the message be lost because of the delivery. That is all.

 

[avbug]

The above two statements seem to offer a different interpretation to me. What it sounds like is that you can fly to any other destination OR fly somewhere at least 50NM away and return to origin to be able to qualify for the ATP cross country hours. Basically the way I read it (between the lines of course) is that, by the Feds putting that reg. in there about the 50NM out and back, it just allows more flexibility for flightsee operators. So the origin to destination cross country time would apply AS WELL regardless of distance. Does this make sense?

No. For the purposes of meeting the cross requirements of the ATP certificate, the flight must extend to a point at least 50 nm from the point of departure. It need not land.

If the flight lands at a point closer than 50 nm, it is a cross country, but may not be counted toward the cross country requirements of the ATP certificate.

The only requirement for cross country experience for the ATP is that the flight reaches a point, at some stage in the flight, of at least 50 nm from the origional point of departure. Period. There is no requirement for a landing. There is no other requirement. However, that requirement must be met.