ATP ME LAND to ATP SE SEA

[Pistlpetet]

I am hoping that someone who has done this can give me the quick answer. I have an ATP ME Land, and would like to get a ATP SE sea. The PTS for the ATP has no "Additional Rating Task Table" like there is in the COM PTS (At least there is none in the one I downloaded from the FAA site).

I have read FAR 61.165 which addresses this situation, but it states that you must do all the major tasks areas, and nothing else.

Hopefully someone has done this, and knows if you must do an entire FULL checkride, or do you just have to do certain Tasks. I would imagine the check ride would be all the things for a Com Sea, and a couple of approaches in the Seaplane, maybe a precision, Non-precision, and a circling.

Any help from experience would be appreciated.

 

[nosehair]

Not gonna be much experience with that one floatin' around. The best thing is to find and call the an examiner who can do an ATP SE and ask what he wants.

 

[LearAv8r]

It has been a while since I did mine. I would call down to Jack Brown's Seaplane base to find out for sure.

http://www.gate.net/~seaplane/

My "guess" is you would have to do the whole thing.

Good Luck-

L-

 

[Spooky 1]

Com-ses

Not sure that I really understnd your question so if my answer turns out sounding dumb, it's not my fault! Just kidding.

I also had a ATP MEL and picked up my float rating via a COM-SES. This ride consisted up the appropriate water work, stalls, steep turns and a few other misc. items of no serious consequence. No instrument work what-so-ever. Then I moved on and got a ATP-MES. This ride was all of the above plus several instrument approaches, single engine work etc.

Jack Brown is well known along with Kenmore in Seattle. Suggest you call either of them for the final solution to your question.

Hope this helps,

 

[Pistlpetet]

Thanks guys, any further info from others who want to throw their 2cents in is welcome.

 

[cheater1239]

mine was a complete ATP ride...

 

[Spooky 1]

mine was a complete ATP ride...

What rating did you get, ATP-SES? MES? If it was an ATP anything, then yes of course there would be the instrument work involved.

 

[cvsfly]

What aircraft / operation would require an ATP SES? Commercial SES should be fine I would think. Pretty easy add-on if you have the airplane and examiner handy (oh and water).

 

[Andy Neill]

The pertinent section is 61.165 Additional Category and CLass Ratings under Part G, Airline Transport Pilots.

61.165(e) addresses addional class ratings. You would need to meet all the eligibility requirements of 61.153 (which you already have) EXCEPT the need to pass a written. You would need to fulfill the requirements of 61.157(b) ONLY if the aircraft in question required a type rating. You already meet the aeronautical experience under Part G, so the only thing left is the practical test per 61.157(e)(1) appropriate to the rating sought.

 

[avbug]

Which, building on what Andy said, consists only of those items that are class related, as you already hold the category for that certificate level. In other words, the examiner could only require you to demonstrate instrument skills and water skills, and be done, with you having already acomplished everything else. However, in most cases, the examiner will require (and has the discretion to require) that you demonstrate full ATP competency in the aircraft. He or she may select whatever requirements from the practical test standards that he or she deems necessary to ensure that adequate representation of the various tasks has been accomplished to prove that you meet the requirements.

Why, may I ask, are you seeking ATP single engine privileges...of all things, in a seaplane? Commercial sea will more than suffice. I'm not trying to discourage you...seek all the training you can handle or afford, by all means. But what benifit is to be gained for higher certification than the commercial for single engine sea?

 

[Spooky 1]

Which, building on what Andy said, consists only of those items that are class related, as you already hold the category for that certificate level. In other words, the examiner could only require you to demonstrate instrument skills and water skills, and be done, with you having already acomplished everything else. However, in most cases, the examiner will require (and has the discretion to require) that you demonstrate full ATP competency in the aircraft. He or she may select whatever requirements from the practical test standards that he or she deems necessary to ensure that adequate representation of the various tasks has been accomplished to prove that you meet the requirements.

Why, may I ask, are you seeking ATP single engine privileges...of all things, in a seaplane? Commercial sea will more than suffice. I'm not trying to discourage you...seek all the training you can handle or afford, by all means. But what benifit is to be gained for higher certification than the commercial for single engine sea?

Could there be some insurance benefits associated with the ATP, especially in say something like a Caravan?

 

[avbug]

Probably. Like I said, I don't discourage anybody from seeking higher training or certification. Every bit of training can enhance one as an aviator, regardless of w(h)eather it's lighter than air, glider, or skydiving...it makes you a better aviator (or at least, has the potential to do so).

For practical purposes, I don't imagine the poster would see any real diference in the practical test, regardless of w(h)eather he or she attempts for the commercial or ATP level of certification. There's really no harm in it, as as you pointed out, insurance may be a benifit, as well as possibly a distinguishing feature on a resume. In either case, good luck to the poster who's seeking the rating.

 

[nosehair]

possibly a distinguishing feature on a resume.

...or possibly just a "personal best" gratification.
Remember why we started flying in the first place?
​

 

[hawg2hawk]

For what it's worth, on your initial SES check, the rating awarded will revert to whatever you already hold on the SEL side. So if you already hold an ATP SEL, when you take your SES check, voila. ATP SES. That's how my commercial SES worked, anyway.

 

[Donsa320]

For what it's worth, on your initial SES check, the rating awarded will revert to whatever you already hold on the SEL side. So if you already hold an ATP SEL, when you take your SES check, voila. ATP SES. That's how my commercial SES worked, anyway.

Hmmm, well it did not work that way with me but that was 20 years ago. It might have been because my SES examiner was not granted ATP DE priveleges though. It's always something.

DC

 

[Pistlpetet]

Guys, Thanks for all the input. I just wanted to get my Seaplane rating, and thought that I might as well go for the top dog. I have seen some jobs requiring an ATP SEA, so I thought that it might be a good idea if I decide to go that route in my retirement years.

I got an unexpected quick response from the place I intend to do my training with. They have confirmed that I will have to do the entire ATP ride. Actually not something I feel like repeating again at the moment. I think I will just settle for the Com Sea.

Thanks again for the speedy help. Fly Safe.

 

[AD SUPT Hopeful]

Didn't work that way for me either, but, that was 7 years ago. Was the change (PP-SES to COM-SES) automatic or did you have to fill out more paperwork for the FSDO?

 

[RoughAir]

When I got my ATP SE sea in a Maule with floats, I had to do a complete checkride which included an ILS, an VOR approach, holding, missed approach and the water work. Most of the checkride was conducted under the hood in the Gainesville, FL area. The water work was accomplished after the instrument approaches.

Most of the oral consisted of water operations, etc. Very little oral on the instrument stuff. The ride was conducted by an ATP DE.

I came into the ride with a ATP SE and ME land.

The Maule was fully IFR equipped.

A couple of years later I took the ATP ME sea ride in a fully eqipped Twin Bee from the Flagler Beach airport (FL).

Again mostly instrument work and then the water ops.

 

[Huggyu2]

I, too, wanted to get my ASES just for grins. La Placa Flying Service in Lake Havasu, AZ used to do one for about $1000. I'll re-attack this summer.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I rented a C-172, called up a Fed and did a ATP SE (land checkride). It's worthless on my ticket and nobody notices..... : )